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Thread: 2010 US National Championships - Ladies

  1. #626
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    i am gaga about Mirai's SP also. i came here last nite right after it aired, and ranted about how beautiful it was. MADE MY NIGHT!

    As for Sasha, again, like her fine. Just dont want her to go to olympics undeserved, thats all. (Plus i was thinking, ppl are acting like she's 80 years old coming back, when in reality Michelle was 25 in the last olympics..so i wonder if that bothers Sasha being treated like she's their grandmother or something) I just hate all the hipocrisy and over hype!
    Sarah had a much better attitude when Michelle was favored to win over her, than did Tara, hence my problem with Tara. She was younger, and hadnt been in it as long..what was the problem? Nancy (even though she whined bout other things) NEVER whined because Kristi was favored over her. So i never got Tara's attitude, except to say that perhaps it came from her mother. which i really didnt get. but thats JMHO.

    If Sasha makes it to the olympics, then is downgraded b/c of flutzing..etc...i think we should hunt down the nationals judges and make them explain why they didnt call it and grade her fairly IF they do indeed unfairly send her through.

    It never ceases to amaze me why people come here and are upset because we think Michelle wasn't treated right. Or why we love her so....it is the MICHELLE KWAN FORUM..isnt this WHERE we should come to vent and praise?
    Last edited by Kwanatic; January 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 PM. Reason: correcting blatant errors
    She is not point to point, she is everywhere! She is MichaelAngelo and the ice is her chapel.~.KIRK WESSLER, sports editor, from the PJ Star in Peoria, Illinois.

  2. #627
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    I would have placed Mirai and Rachael over Sasha. If the SP were the only way of judging, I'd send the former two to Vancouver. I think they sold their programs way more than Sasha did. JMHO, as usual

  3. #628

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    I think I've finally figured out why I seemed to see a different program by Sasha than a lot of people. It's because I watched it on Universal Sports instead of Ice Network! Scott and Sandra spotted Sasha's flaws in her combo but the IN commentators, apparently, did not.

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    I uploaded Christina Gao's Short Program!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyIaPKkBIMQ

  5. #630
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    And here is Alexe Gilles's short program

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-duGgbsL6Y

  6. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambern024 View Post
    why won't they call sasha's then?! it's not even a tough call...it's obvious!
    they better call her on it if she does it saturday!
    It's less likely to get an edge call in the long program than the short program, a/k/a the technical program, especially at Nationals. Mirai, who got a warning in the SP, needs to watch it in the LP, but I think Sasha's going to slide. In Mirai's case, I think they are trying to tell her that she is the "complete and balanced package" they want for US ladies, if she can keep up the great work in the LP and correct her edge. They already know Sasha can't correct hers, and she won't be back next year, so why bother calling attention to it?
    Last edited by gratefulmkfan; January 22nd, 2010 at 11:34 PM.
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  7. #632

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    OK it's still pissing me off they gave Sasha credit for her 2flutz---it was sooo clearly underrotated. She should have at least 5 less points and should be down in the 63 range. Still a very high score that would place her in 3rd. If she goes to the Olys as 5-6points ahead the 3rd place finisher it will just add another USFSA line of bs....

    Having said that I enjoyed Sasha's program and give her uber-credit for competing here. I just want her scored correctly.

    As for Ashely not receiving an edge call on her flutz....she fell...and if you look closely it was off an outside flat...she did make an improvement to it from her past flutzing. I don't think she got too many points for the jump anyway...so let's take a point off of her score and put her down to 61.
    Last edited by cestlavie000000; January 23rd, 2010 at 03:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by handlem9z View Post
    I
    It's always amazes me at all the negativity that is voiced against Tara, Sarah and Sasha.
    Well, it always amazes me how the media picked apart every move of Michelle and when Sasha or Sarah or Tara do likewise, they were/are never called on it.

    A few examples (there are more):

    --Sasha's revolving door policy on coaches, which always sends her back to Nicks, as far as I recall, was always characterized as "switching coaches" (clap on/clap off) for good reasons to improve certain aspects of her skating, butt the "fired" word never came up. However, when Michelle left Frank, fired was about the only word used to describe the split by EVERYBODY.

    -1998 Michelle remains in the US to give her broken toe a chance to heal as much as possible, skips the opening ceremonies and doesn't stay in the village. So when she was given the silver medal instead of the Gold that IMO she deserved, the press portrays her participation in the games as a "business trip for the Kwans" and many articles imply that somehow that was to "blame" for the outcome.

    Come 2002, nobody seemed to care about any of this regarding Sasha and Sarah. I don't remember exactly how it went, but one or both flew in for the opening ceremonies and promptly left to go practice elsewhere for a week. Oh, except Michelle was there for the entire 2 weeks and in the Costas interview, he brought up 1998 and gave Michelle the 3rd degree about why she was handling it differently in 2002, as if there was something sinister in her motives. However, he didn't seem to care about any of this bunk when came to Sarah/Sasha. Oh, and on top of that, not much was made of Sarah skipping the closing ceremonies in 2002, allegedly because she was so sick she couldn 't and yet a day later seemed fine at the Wheaties Box press conference.

    --In 2006, Michelle got crucified by many in the press as "Cruella De Kwan" for daring to ask for an injury by. According to those guys, big bad, mean Michelle had no business and should step aside and give Emily a chance. When asked, even Peggy Fleming expressed the opinion that Michelle shouldn't go. Fast forward to 2010 and nobody bats an eye that Sasha stopped competing for the last 4 years and shows up only for the one event that is essential if she wants to get to the Olympics.

    --2002 Nationals-Sasha was very lucky that no one was injured as a result of her shameless stalking of the other skaters during practices and warm-ups. It all gets excused in one way or the other (because she was so "young", too focused, or merely clueless about her surroundings)...Nope, I don't like her because of that and never will. Am I being negative about Sasha???? Absolutely YES! Because IMO, to quote kwanette, "It is so well deserved."

    Finally, please know that I don't give a rusty hoot about whether the athletes stay in the Olympic Village, attend opening and closing ceremonies, or change coaches to get additional perspectives and different approaches. It is the choice of the athlete. HOWEVER, I do give a rusty hoot that Michelle was always "accused, criticized, and abused" for her choices and that the same behavior in other athletes is completely ignored. It is the double standard that really ticks me off.
    Last edited by vive_la_reine; January 22nd, 2010 at 11:14 PM.

  9. #634

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    Quote Originally Posted by GinnySmith View Post
    Well, it always amazes me how the media picked apart every move of Michelle and when Sasha or Sarah or Tara do likewise, they were/are never called on it.

    A few examples (there are more):

    --Sasha's revolving door policy on coaches, which always sends her back to Nicks, as far as I recall, was always characterized as "switching coaches" (clap on/clap off) for good reasons to improve certain aspects of her skating, butt the "fired" word never came up. However, when Michelle left Frank, fired was about the only word used to describe the split by EVERYBODY.

    -1998 Michelle remains in the US to give her broken toe a chance to heal as much as possible, skips the opening ceremonies and doesn't stay in the village. So when she was given the silver medal instead of the Gold that IMO she deserved, the press portrays her participation in the games as a "business trip for the Kwans" and many articles imply that somehow that was to "blame" for the outcome.

    Come 2002, nobody seemed to care about any of this regarding Sasha and Sarah. I don't remember exactly how it went, but one or both flew in for the opening ceremonies and promptly left to go practice elsewhere for a week. Oh, except Michelle was there for the entire 2 weeks and in the Costas interview, he brought up 1998 and gave Michelle the 3rd degree about why she was handling it differently in 2002, as if there was something sinister in her motives. However, he didn't seem to care about any of this bunk when came to Sarah/Sasha. Oh, and on top of that, not much was made of Sarah skipping the closing ceremonies in 2002, allegedly because she was so sick she couldn 't and yet a day later seemed fine at the Wheaties Box press conference.

    --In 2006, Michelle got crucified by many in the press as "Cruella De Kwan" for daring to ask for an injury by. According to those guys, big bad, mean Michelle had no business and should step aside and give Emily a chance. When asked, even Peggy Fleming expressed the opinion that Michelle shouldn't go. Fast forward to 2010 and nobody bats an eye that Sasha stopped competing for the last 4 years and shows up only for the one event that is essential if she wants to get to the Olympics.

    --2002 Nationals-Sasha was very lucky that no one was injured as a result of her shameless stalking of the other skaters during practices and warm-ups. It all gets excused in one way or the other (because she was so "young", too focused, or merely clueless about her surroundings)...Nope, I don't like her because of that and never will. Am I being negative about Sasha???? Absolutely YES! Because IMO, to quote kwanette, "It is so well deserved."

    Finally, please know that I don't give a rusty hoot about whether the athletes stay in the Olympic Village, attend opening and closing ceremonies, or change coaches to get additional perspectives and different approaches. It is the choice of the athlete. HOWEVER, I do give a rusty hoot that Michelle was always "accused, criticized, and abused" for her choices and that the same behavior in other athletes is completely ignored. It is the double standard that really ticks me off.
    What GinnySmith said, again.


    You're on a roll today...bravo.

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    ooooooooh, Ginny. You are so elegantly expressing what I have felt for so long regarding Sarah, Tara and Sasha. I've just never been able to put my feelings into words.
    Is love alive? You betcha

  12. #637
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    Not that I think anything can be added to GinnySmith's post, but anyway...critics always mention that Michelle Kwan didn't win an Olympic gold medal. Every Olympic year we hear it again. But they never talk about Sasha or Sarah and say "She never won an Olympic gold medal, or a World championship, and only once won a National championship," ...or...."She never won anything *but* an Olympic gold medal; not even a National championship." Just once I'd like to hear that. If Michelle is always going to be the one who didn't win gold, let's hear what the others didn't win.

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    My. Just watched Caroline's SP. Seems like she has gotten slower maybe. ???

    Only Heaven could send us such an angelic skater.

    "If you have nothing in life but a great friend, you're rich."- Michelle Kwan

    I'm looking at the world through Kwan-colored glasses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patsue View Post
    ooooooooh, Ginny. You are so elegantly expressing what I have felt for so long regarding Sarah, Tara and Sasha. I've just never been able to put my feelings into words.
    Yes. That's exactly what I was thinking, so thank you Ginny for saying what I wanted to, but couldn't. Ginny I hope you sleep well tonight for getting this off your chest and being true to yourself. Your words speak for many of us, and I feel better because of your posts. The facts and the feelings that went with them are out there thanks to you.
    Fan forever of Michelle Kwan - the skater and the person!
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  15. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by GinnySmith View Post
    Well, it always amazes me how the media picked apart every move of Michelle and when Sasha or Sarah or Tara do likewise, they were/are never called on it.

    A few examples (there are more):

    --Sasha's revolving door policy on coaches, which always sends her back to Nicks, as far as I recall, was always characterized as "switching coaches" (clap on/clap off) for good reasons to improve certain aspects of her skating, butt the "fired" word never came up. However, when Michelle left Frank, fired was about the only word used to describe the split by EVERYBODY.

    -1998 Michelle remains in the US to give her broken toe a chance to heal as much as possible, skips the opening ceremonies and doesn't stay in the village. So when she was given the silver medal instead of the Gold that IMO she deserved, the press portrays her participation in the games as a "business trip for the Kwans" and many articles imply that somehow that was to "blame" for the outcome.

    Come 2002, nobody seemed to care about any of this regarding Sasha and Sarah. I don't remember exactly how it went, but one or both flew in for the opening ceremonies and promptly left to go practice elsewhere for a week. Oh, except Michelle was there for the entire 2 weeks and in the Costas interview, he brought up 1998 and gave Michelle the 3rd degree about why she was handling it differently in 2002, as if there was something sinister in her motives. However, he didn't seem to care about any of this bunk when came to Sarah/Sasha. Oh, and on top of that, not much was made of Sarah skipping the closing ceremonies in 2002, allegedly because she was so sick she couldn 't and yet a day later seemed fine at the Wheaties Box press conference.

    --In 2006, Michelle got crucified by many in the press as "Cruella De Kwan" for daring to ask for an injury by. According to those guys, big bad, mean Michelle had no business and should step aside and give Emily a chance. When asked, even Peggy Fleming expressed the opinion that Michelle shouldn't go. Fast forward to 2010 and nobody bats an eye that Sasha stopped competing for the last 4 years and shows up only for the one event that is essential if she wants to get to the Olympics.

    --2002 Nationals-Sasha was very lucky that no one was injured as a result of her shameless stalking of the other skaters during practices and warm-ups. It all gets excused in one way or the other (because she was so "young", too focused, or merely clueless about her surroundings)...Nope, I don't like her because of that and never will. Am I being negative about Sasha???? Absolutely YES! Because IMO, to quote kwanette, "It is so well deserved."

    Finally, please know that I don't give a rusty hoot about whether the athletes stay in the Olympic Village, attend opening and closing ceremonies, or change coaches to get additional perspectives and different approaches. It is the choice of the athlete. HOWEVER, I do give a rusty hoot that Michelle was always "accused, criticized, and abused" for her choices and that the same behavior in other athletes is completely ignored. It is the double standard that really ticks me off.
    The one that really disgusted me was the completely ignorant "American Beats Kwan" headline, back in 98 by MSNBC and then AGAIN in 2002 by the Seattle Times.......

  16. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by GinnySmith View Post
    Well, it always amazes me how the media picked apart every move of Michelle and when Sasha or Sarah or Tara do likewise, they were/are never called on it.

    A few examples (there are more):

    --Sasha's revolving door policy on coaches, which always sends her back to Nicks, as far as I recall, was always characterized as "switching coaches" (clap on/clap off) for good reasons to improve certain aspects of her skating, butt the "fired" word never came up. However, when Michelle left Frank, fired was about the only word used to describe the split by EVERYBODY.

    -1998 Michelle remains in the US to give her broken toe a chance to heal as much as possible, skips the opening ceremonies and doesn't stay in the village. So when she was given the silver medal instead of the Gold that IMO she deserved, the press portrays her participation in the games as a "business trip for the Kwans" and many articles imply that somehow that was to "blame" for the outcome.

    Come 2002, nobody seemed to care about any of this regarding Sasha and Sarah. I don't remember exactly how it went, but one or both flew in for the opening ceremonies and promptly left to go practice elsewhere for a week. Oh, except Michelle was there for the entire 2 weeks and in the Costas interview, he brought up 1998 and gave Michelle the 3rd degree about why she was handling it differently in 2002, as if there was something sinister in her motives. However, he didn't seem to care about any of this bunk when came to Sarah/Sasha. Oh, and on top of that, not much was made of Sarah skipping the closing ceremonies in 2002, allegedly because she was so sick she couldn 't and yet a day later seemed fine at the Wheaties Box press conference.

    --In 2006, Michelle got crucified by many in the press as "Cruella De Kwan" for daring to ask for an injury by. According to those guys, big bad, mean Michelle had no business and should step aside and give Emily a chance. When asked, even Peggy Fleming expressed the opinion that Michelle shouldn't go. Fast forward to 2010 and nobody bats an eye that Sasha stopped competing for the last 4 years and shows up only for the one event that is essential if she wants to get to the Olympics.

    --2002 Nationals-Sasha was very lucky that no one was injured as a result of her shameless stalking of the other skaters during practices and warm-ups. It all gets excused in one way or the other (because she was so "young", too focused, or merely clueless about her surroundings)...Nope, I don't like her because of that and never will. Am I being negative about Sasha???? Absolutely YES! Because IMO, to quote kwanette, "It is so well deserved."

    Finally, please know that I don't give a rusty hoot about whether the athletes stay in the Olympic Village, attend opening and closing ceremonies, or change coaches to get additional perspectives and different approaches. It is the choice of the athlete. HOWEVER, I do give a rusty hoot that Michelle was always "accused, criticized, and abused" for her choices and that the same behavior in other athletes is completely ignored. It is the double standard that really ticks me off.

    AMEN!!!!
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  17. #642

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    Has caroline withdrawn because of her back injury? Much if this situation should really be laid at the doorsteps of Alissa, if it should be laid anywere and it shouldn't imo. She is the reason we only have two spots. If we had had 3 spots, there wouldn't be so much antagonism against Sasha and the ill conceived imo perception she is taking a spot EARNED by someone else. One spot is probably already determined. The second one will be earned by what happens tomorrow. If Sasha's lutz was really flutzed, it certainly is not the first time an edge call was not made when it should have been. And it is hardly her fault that happened. Her job is to skate. The judges and tech specialist are supposed to do the judging. I'm sick of it all myself and this is the last year I will follow the sport. If any of the things alleged by some here are really being done by the USFSA and the judges, why would any family and their child be crazy enough to pursue a career is this sport? Many sacrifice their childhood for this dream and families often hock themselves to the hilt. The sport needs to be investigated, but because it doesn't rake in big bucks that is not likely to ever happen. In lieu of that, the skaters ought to organize and make demands and even boycott competitions if necessary---and the fans ought to give them their wholehearted support. The skaters have power and they need to use it to benefit the sport and themselves. Power to the skaters!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by iceman; January 23rd, 2010 at 12:09 AM.

  18. #643

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    No one will ever replace the Kween for me, but last night was the first time I've seen a ladies skater have an MK-like "heart on their sleeves/such joy" moment since MK left competitive skating...watch Mirai's expression/emotion after she finishes her layback spin and starts her footwork. She's absolutely in the zone!

    I'm looking forward to her skating lights out in the LP (and hopefully earning her spot on the team). Go Mirai!!!

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    @Iceman: I didnt know about a withdrawal of Caroline??? And just thought i'd add, even if there were 3 spots, still it we had 3 good skaters along with Sasha, it would still be debated that soneone else should have gone. I have no angst against Sasha for being there, i think many people are more against the press, etc,. for the ways they have done Michelle vs. tara/sara/sasha rather than her herself. Though, yeah, there are some problems... but thats what alot of people are upset about. though, i dont mean to insult your intelligence - you probalby already realized most of that.
    @Jason: ITA that was the most moved i have been by a performance in a while, i was at first by caroline as a youngster, but i was the only one watching in my house last nite, and i cheered applauded and got quite misty eyed over that. Oh, no...no one will replace Michelle for me, but that was just a really nice moment and hopefully..will lead to more!
    She is not point to point, she is everywhere! She is MichaelAngelo and the ice is her chapel.~.KIRK WESSLER, sports editor, from the PJ Star in Peoria, Illinois.

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    Okay question for you COP experts. What makes a level 4 spiral sequence? What makes a level 3 layback spin? I ask this because Bebe Liang recieved only a level 1 spiral sequence and layback spin here and at her only GP event, she recieved a level 4 spiral sequence and level 3 layback. I rewatched her SP, and yes she fell on the flip, otherwise it was allright. I am uploading it as we speak. But just wanted to put it out there.

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    There is a rumor floating about that Caroline is going to pull out with an injury but as of yet there is nothing official that I have found. Rumors are oftimes just rumors
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorldsGreatestMK View Post
    Okay question for you COP experts. What makes a level 4 spiral sequence? What makes a level 3 layback spin? I ask this because Bebe Liang recieved only a level 1 spiral sequence and layback spin here and at her only GP event, she recieved a level 4 spiral sequence and level 3 layback. I rewatched her SP, and yes she fell on the flip, otherwise it was allright. I am uploading it as we speak. But just wanted to put it out there.
    Any spin or spiral sequence needs four features to earn a level 4. (Or 3 to earn a level 3.) Feature examples are, for spirals: change of edge, change of direction, change of position, difficult variation of position, total split position, or holding any one spiral for 6 seconds. Examples for a layback spin: holding any one position for 8 revolutions, a sideways leaning spin, a catchfoot layback, a Biellman, or a layback with the leg dropped or any other variation.

    Bebe's problem in the spiral sequence was that her last spiral (the right back outside y-spiral/catchfoot spiral) was only held in position about 2.8 seconds, by my stopwatch. As such, the whole sequence was downgraded to level 1. (The base requirement for spiral sequences in the short program is that each spiral has to be held at least 3 seconds, no exceptions.)

    Bebe's problem in the layback was that she was attempting three features, which would earn her a level 3: holding the classic position 8 revolutions, a sideways leaning spin (kinda? it wasn't exactly sideways), and a catchfoot layback. She didn't hold the classic position or the sideways leaning spin long enough to receive credit for the features. The catchfoot, however, was fine.
    "Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds." ~ Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScrappyTheOwl View Post
    Any spin or spiral sequence needs four features to earn a level 4. (Or 3 to earn a level 3.) Feature examples are, for spirals: change of edge, change of direction, change of position, difficult variation of position, total split position, or holding any one spiral for 6 seconds. Examples for a layback spin: holding any one position for 8 revolutions, a sideways leaning spin, a catchfoot layback, a Biellman, or a layback with the leg dropped or any other variation.

    Bebe's problem in the spiral sequence was that her last spiral (the right back outside y-spiral/catchfoot spiral) was only held in position about 2.8 seconds, by my stopwatch. As such, the whole sequence was downgraded to level 1. (The base requirement for spiral sequences in the short program is that each spiral has to be held at least 3 seconds, no exceptions.)

    Bebe's problem in the layback was that she was attempting three features, which would earn her a level 3: holding the classic position 8 revolutions, a sideways leaning spin (kinda? it wasn't exactly sideways), and a catchfoot layback. She didn't hold the classic position or the sideways leaning spin long enough to receive credit for the features. The catchfoot, however, was fine.
    Thank You

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    I rode with Caroline on the bus today - she was fine and smiling - her practice was not good at all, but she was smiling and chatting on the bus with no apparent injury. And ignoring Ashley, as was I (this example of why I'm having such a good time).

    Sasha, Sasha, Sasha...Here's what I saw: after 2 practices with flutz, flutz, lip, lip...Sasha was miraculously healed in SP...really! I saw a luzt from the flat of the blade (she began the usual roll, but took off from the flat), and the flip was really a flip. I'm sitting on the end, and she did the lutz on my end, so I'm really sure of what I saw. The flip was on the other end. Thus, it is likely the judges saw what I saw, perhaps less of a flat (I would have given a !), but understandable beyond scandal that she was not given an E. I loved her SP; fun watching Kwan era skater attempting a come-back in this Crocked environment. Weird how her FW/spins did not have the content to rake in points - did she get the GOEs to raise those to comparable values? I gotta read the protocols sometime

    Today, Alissa nailed everything: 6 triples and 2X2X sequence - again leaving it in practice, apparently. Mirai was on, and fully rotating everything. Rachel was having probs, but landed 2 3-3s outside of runthrough. Sasha kept the mystery going and did little. Splat on something in runthrough (Flip?). Outside that landed a few loops, "lutz's", and a wonderful 3S-2T-2T combo.

    I'm with Ginny 110% with the Sasha/Tara/Sarah thing. But now-a-daze, I'm also with Michelle. She is so far beyond all of this that she can choose rest for important studies over this skating drama. I have nothing better to do, so I'm enjoying this stuff for the trivial. Go Sasha! Win Oly gold, and party your butt off with Tara and Sarah at those Gold parties! Michelle will be too busy with tawdry international affairs to join you.

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