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Thread: When extremism becomes dangerous

  1. #51
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    You don't know that, evergreen. As Sparks said, not everything is so cut and dry or clear. That goes for both sides. I thank those of you who are truly willing to listen to opposing viewpoints and to consider that there might be some merit in another person's stance. I think the point of this thread is to share not to dismiss another person's perspective because one does not agree with it.
    Last edited by trueurbanite; June 5th, 2009 at 11:38 AM.
    "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18

  2. Default

    I don't know that parents assault and even kill their children? It happens every day even without the added amunition of admiting pregnancy.

  3. #53

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    Now the killer is crying that he's been treated "like a criminal".

    http://www.startribune.com/nation/46...D3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

  4. #54
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    No one who guns down "liberals" or "pro choicers" in a church -- or advocates same -- is in any way a true Christian. So, too, no one who rams an airliner into a skyscraper or beheads a reporter -- or advocates same -- is in any way a true Muslim. Whether these fanatics hide behind the Bible or the Koran cannot obscure the truth that these monsters are as far removed from God and God's Will as it is possible to be. They are servants of the Devil, plain and simple.
    “All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light from a single candle.”
    --Saint Francis of Assisi

  5. Default

    I think abortion is wrong in most cases and that Tiller was a murder, but I also think his killler was wrong too. It is people like him who give pro-lifers a bad name.

  6. #56

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    parents have been killing their children since the classics. Hercules' wife killed the kids to get revenge. The greek classics have several examples of mothers killing their children for various reasons. It is not a new concept, just a tragic one. Sometimes it is post partum depression, and the mother really needs help. Sometimes it is that the mother is just not a good person. Murder is hard to understand on any level.

  7. #57
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    evergreen, yes that is true, 100% correct about parents killing their kids. I always think of the case of Nixmarys Brown. But teens are not killed because they get pregnant. It's not 1 + 1 = 2. I think not having parental notification eliminates some parental rights which parents who genuinely love and care for their children are entitled to have. It seems like w/ these cases there is an all or nothing mentality. I speak of the general public and not of anyone in particular.

    eventerbess, so true about murder being hard to understand at any level. Especially when it comes from the parents though. For most parents, parenting is about protecting your kids from dangerous people and situations.
    "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18

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    Teens are not killed because they are pregnant? I'm so glad you know this for a fact. I feel so much better now.

  9. #59
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    Now you're being condescending. It is not the law of nature that if teens get pregnant, they get killed. That is a fact of logic.
    "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18

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    I have no choice, other than condescention, at this point.

  11. #61
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    I don't want to disrupt a thread, which, excepting a few posts early on, has had great insight and flow. I humbly bow out of it. Thanks for the chance to post.
    "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18

  12. #62

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    Trueurbanite, this is just a difference of opinion over a very difficult topic. We've done fairly well up till now. Your "lone voice" has been tempered and reasonable.

    As for notification - I used my previous example of how it shouldn't be manditory...straight across the board. In many cases, I agree, young ladies can go to their parents with the truth. God bless them. BUTT if a teen-aged girl is going to make the decision about her reproductive freedom and whether to have a child or not, then she also needs to have the choice of whether she feels SAFE telling her parents...or not.

    Killing, beating, kicking out of the house, cutting off their education...whatever. There are a lot of consequences teens MAY have to face if they admit to their parents that they are pregnant.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by eventerbess View Post
    parents have been killing their children since the classics. Hercules' wife killed the kids to get revenge. The greek classics have several examples of mothers killing their children for various reasons. It is not a new concept, just a tragic one. Sometimes it is post partum depression, and the mother really needs help. Sometimes it is that the mother is just not a good person. Murder is hard to understand on any level.
    Hercules was driven mad by Hera and killed his children in a frenzy. He atoned for the crime by performing the 12 Labors set forth by King Eurystheus of Tiryns and Mycenae.
    Bulfinch's Mythology

    I think it is Medea you are thinking of. This cookie is a piece of work albeit provoked by Jason, of Golden Fleece fame, by setting her aside and marrying Glauce daughter of King Creon of Cornith.

    Medea poisons ceremonial robes of Glauce and Creon and proceeds to murder her children by Jason. Then escapes with the children’s bodies to Athens.
    Euripides

    As a side note: in the 50’s there was a TV program on Sunday afternoons, Omnibus. One week they would show a dramatic play, the next a ballet, the following an opera, usually in English and then there were the Greek dramas and comedies. There was one year, 1956 or 1958 that they scheduled Medea to be performed. There was only one problem with the timing – it was scheduled for Mother’s Day. Needless to say the programming was changed to something a little more appropriate and no not the “Trojan Women”.

    Didn't mean to interrupt the thread, please continue.
    Last edited by 4dogknight; June 7th, 2009 at 01:26 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar!
    We have met the enemy and they is us.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by trueurbanite View Post
    I don't want to disrupt a thread, which, excepting a few posts early on, has had great insight and flow. I humbly bow out of it. Thanks for the chance to post.
    trueurbanite, I actually *love* your posts, and I love the way we all--for the most part--can discuss such a difficult and emotional topic and remain civil and cordial. I honestly believe that healthy debate is necessary. I tend to see the world in shades of gray, anyway, rather than black/white, and I feel like I can only understand the enormity of a topic such as this if I hear every angle.

    So, thank you for being the "lone voice." You represent a large group of people whose opinions I truly respect.

  15. #65

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    4dogknight thanks for the refresher on the classics, you were spot on for the myths I was trying to remember. I studied all that once, it was just so long ago, back when hercules was performing his labors.

  16. #66

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    Now there has been a shooting at the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C..

    The suspect, who was not identified, was reportedly a man, born in 1920, who had possible connections to hate groups or anti-government groups.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/?GT1=43001

    Will it ever stop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    Last year there was the killer who shot up a church in Tennessee because he wanted to kill "liberals". Apparently Hannity and Savage "inspired" him.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/28/usa

    And now some people believe it okay to kill doctors:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    My condolences to the families.

    Aren't both of these stories an example of domestic terrorism?
    Damn right it's terrorism. Maybe Obama needs to keep Gitmo open, and start dumping these psychos there since they think it's so cool to go around killing anyone they don't like. And a nice waterboarding would do them all good since it's supposedly not torture. Maybe I'll even donate my camera to the War on Terror.

  18. #68
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    It is terrorism. Sadly, at least in my idealistic mind, two wrongs don't make a right. Both of these alleged terrorists deserve their day in court. What happens to them after that--well, I'm totally against the death penalty. But then, prison isn't fun.

  19. #69

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    No prison isn't fun. All convicted terrorists can be in SuperMax for the rest of their lives. We don't need no stinkin' Gitmo.

    If there are so many of these seething zealots coming out of the woodwork - ready to kill liberals, doctors, Jews, government officials, et. al., how can we find them and stop them?
    We all know torture doesn't bring forth good information.
    I hope the Department of Homeland Security is stepping it up. We are not safe.

  20. #70
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    The shape of things to come?

    Holocaust Museum guard killed in shooting, gunman wounded
    A guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum died after being shot Wednesday in the crowded attraction and a gunman was seriously wounded in return fire, authorities said. The incident left panic-stricken visitors dashing for exits, witnesses said.
    Two law enforcement officials identified the suspected gunman as James Wenneker von Brunn, 88, of Maryland's Eastern Shore. The officials did not want to be identified because they were not yet authorized to release the name to the public.

    Von Brunn's name is prominent on white-supremacist Internet sites.

    He was released from the federal penitentiary in Ray Brook, N.Y., on Sept. 15, 1989, after serving 5-1/2 years. He was convicted in 1983 of attempted kidnapping, burglary and assault with a deadly weapon in a 1981 incident at the Federal Reserve, said Felicia Ponce, a spokeswoman for the federal Bureau of Prisons.

    Court records showed that he was arrested two years earlier outside the room where the board was meeting, carrying a revolver, knife and sawed-off shotgun. At the time, police said Von Brunn wanted to take the members hostage because of high interest rates and the nation's economic difficulties.

    Von Brunn, a Holocaust denier, maintains a racist, anti-Semitic website and wrote a book titled Kill the Best Gentile.
    I don't know why this country is so terrified by foreign terrorism when our own home grown group is getting so good at it.
    We have met the enemy and they is us.
    Pogo (Walt Kelly)

  21. #71
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    A Holocaust denier? Tell that to the branch of my grandfather's family tree that was lopped off. What an idiot.

    Well, like my mom always says, let's just give everyone more guns. That'll take care of it. (She's sarcastic, BTW.)

  22. #72

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    I don't know why this country is so terrified by foreign terrorism when our own home grown group is getting so good at it.
    True.
    Think about this: What if this terrorist had an "Arab" or "Middle Eastern" name? What if he wasn't an old white man?
    Would the reaction be different?

    I stole this stuff from watching TV tonight.
    Jack Levin, a noted Criminoligist, has studied "Domestic Terrorism". He looks at ALL types of Domestic Terrorism - both from the extreme Left and Right.
    He stated tonight that since 9/11/2001, there have been more "homegrown" terrorist attacks that there have been from foriegn extremists.
    Racially motivated attacks are, unfortunately on the rise.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Levin

    Some justice is served:
    Two Albuquerque men convicted of fire bombing an abortion clinic are headed to a federal prison.
    In December 2007, investigators arrested Sergio Baca and his friend Chad Altman for setting fire to an abortion clinic, causing more than $796,000 in damage.
    Both men struck plea bargains.
    Wednesday, the two faced federal Judge John Conway, who told Altman it was "the dumbest thing you've done in your life."
    Conway sentenced Altman to 40 months in prison.
    Baca, who prosecutors said was behind the plot to prevent his former girlfriend from aborting his child, was sentenced to 46 months.
    Outside the courthouse, a clinic spokesperson had little to say but U.S. Attorney Greg Fouratt was just as emphatic as the judge about the pair's actions.
    "It wasn't a case about religious views. Let's call them what they were, two knuckleheads who were seeking to deter one woman from getting an abortion of pregnancy that was caused by one of those two men," Fouratt said.

    Conway ordered both men to split restitution in the case.

    They'll have to pay the $796,000 after they get out of prison.
    http://www.koat.com/news/19718634/detail.html

  23. #73
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    Okay, I had my say on abortion, and that was all I intended to post in this thread. But now we've got more going on than we did when the thread began.

    What is terrorism, who is a terrorist? The definitions that I think are correct:

    Terrorism is asymetrical warfare, waged by the small side. There are two sides in a war. Two evenly-matched countries, or nearly evenly matched, do symetrical warfare. When one is unable to match one's enemy, one tries the asymetrical plan, and terrorism is a main tool of that scheme.

    Who is a terrorist? If terrorism is war, then a terrorist is a soldier. Soldiers fight for their countries, or for their ideals, or both. A stateless terrorist is a soldier for his cause, having no specific country.

    Soldiers are brave souls, honorable and good. They deserve our respect. So if these attacks are acts of terrorism, they are acts of war, committed by soldiers who deserve honor and respect.

    I differ.

    These criminals are bandits, they are murderers, they are the guys in the black hats, they are good-for-nothing crooks. They should be treated as such.

    Be they the abortion-provider-killers, the Jew-shooters, the racist pigs that killed African-Americans because of skin-color, or the 9/11 mass-murderers, they are crooks. They are bandits. They do not deserve the honor of soldiers.

    Just my absolutely true opinon.
    I pledge allegiance to Liberty and Justice for all.
    Pray for Peace.
    "We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other's children." - Jimmy Carter
    Click here for my photos.

  24. #74

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    Abortion Foes Take to eBay to Raise Funds for Roeder’s Defense
    Abortion opponents looking to help Scott Roeder, the Kansas City man charged with killing abortion doctor George Tiller, have organized an unusual auction: They plan to sell a trove of anti-abortion memorabilia on eBay.

    According to an article in the Kansas City Star, the auction will include a host of items, including an Army of God manual, a “prison cookbook” assembled by a woman serving time for abortion-clinic bombings and arsons, and an bullhorn autographed by a Kansas City anti-abortion activist.

  25. #75

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    Until fathers, stepdads, uncles, brothers ect, stop raping their own, I will be pro abortion.

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