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Thread: When extremism becomes dangerous

  1. #1

    Alert When extremism becomes dangerous

    Last year there was the killer who shot up a church in Tennessee because he wanted to kill "liberals". Apparently Hannity and Savage "inspired" him.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/28/usa

    And now some people believe it okay to kill doctors:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    My condolences to the families.

    Aren't both of these stories an example of domestic terrorism?

  2. #2
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    This was extremely sad and tragic. People are just so messed up and this man was a psycho for sure; this all adds fuel for the fire.

    My prayers are for the Tiller family. No one is safe anywhere. Not even in church.
    "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18

  3. #3

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    Every time I see one of my physician brothers taken down in this way while trying to do their job it sickens me beyond belief.

    I am so shocked by this occurring at this point in time on our planet. A tragedy beyond belief to a person who dedicated his life toward helping others and one crazy person takes him out in a second. Truly sickening. The poor man and his poor family. When will this madness stop?

    And the crazy continues! What is going on?

    http://news.aol.com/article/military...-killed/507181

    Again people just trying to do a job a a military recruiting office. Unbelievably tragic. I can barely read some of the aweful comments made by people after articles like this on AOL. Again....what is going on?
    Last edited by cestlavie000000; June 19th, 2009 at 03:17 PM.

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    I'm watching AC 360 and it's quite enlightening. I was always opposed to abortion, and I still am but some of these procedures are done to save the mother's life when there is absolutely no hope of saving the baby's life. It doesn't seem like people are thinking rationally about any of this. None of us can say what it would be like to be in that situation, and probably we'd be grateful to at least have the *choice*.

    Which is why I remain pro-choice.

    The shooter was a lunatic. I can't believe anyone would consider him a hero. He was obviously mentally ill.

  5. #5

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    I still maintain he is a domestic terrorist. Did you hear what Randall Terry said today? I'm just sick. Is this the new "Christian Jihad"?
    Yes, we all should feel safe anywhere - especially in our places of worship.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    I still maintain he is a domestic terrorist.
    Absolutely. Sadly this is the perfect example of it, and the fact that it exists. We can't lump all domestic killers in to one category, that of being "mentally ill". This man knew what he was doing.
    It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. A.B. Giamatti

  7. Default

    Yes he did. Keith Olberman had a great show last night in which he took Fox News to task for profiling the dead doctor over 40 times during the last year. The killer posted on an anti abortion site brfore the murder and it was shown last night. The connection between the killer and Fox News, especially Bill O. is astounding.
    Last edited by evergreen; June 2nd, 2009 at 03:36 PM.

  8. #8

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    Thanks for bringing up the Media's role in promoting extremism (and possibly domestic terrorism).
    Olbermann on Tiller's murder:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_210188.html
    More about O'Reilly:
    http://www.care2.com/causes/politics...-bill-oreilly/
    While no one can argue that Bill O'Reilly and his ilk are directly responsible for the murder of Dr. George Tiller, they certainly are responsible for hanging a target on his back and engaging in frighteningly inflammatory rhetoric year after year, arguably creating an environment where it is okay to demonize a medical professional performing a legally guaranteed and necessary medical procedure. Not only did they make it okay for American citizens to demonize George Tiller, the result of their rhetoric is seen on message boards around the country where you can find Tiller's murder being justified and even praised.
    And of course Randall Terry basically said Dr. Tiller had it coming:
    http://crooksandliars.com/josh-glast...-dr-tillers-mu

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    Ty Sparks, for posting Olberman.
    Last edited by evergreen; June 2nd, 2009 at 03:35 PM.

  10. #10

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    How in the he&& can you all ACTUALLY believe THINK BILL O'REILLY is responsible for or even has a part in the murder of a DOCTOR who was MURDERING babies. I am not surprised though, the media and the left are completely void of any scruples. It is a shame that he was killed, but I am certailny mourning his death. Now some babies will live that should be living. How anyone can support or candone what he was doing is beyond the pale. good riddance.
    Last edited by breannaw; June 2nd, 2009 at 03:31 PM.

  11. #11

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    No one said that, Bre. Please look at the comments. Olbermann was pointing out that O'Reilly put a target on Dr. Tiller's back. O'Reilly hounded the doctor and revealed where he lived, etc.
    That is demonstrating a lack of scruples, imo.
    Calling a medical professional who performed LEGAL proceedures to save a woman's life a "murderer" is essentially blaming the victim. Is that what you want?
    About Dr. Tiller: ((RIP))
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_w...ion_sider.html
    Tiller specialized in the 1% of abortions performed in the third trimester, usually on women who discover their fetus is so badly damaged that the baby would be stillborn or suffer. He also took patients with healthy fetuses who had been raped or whose health was in danger.
    Tiller's unusual clinic offered grief counseling that included funeral viewings, cremations and even postmortem Baptisms.

  12. #12

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    Sorry for the double post.
    Since 2005, Tiller has been mentioned on O'Reilly's show on 28 separate occasions. The accusations against Tiller were brutal: he was nick-named "Tiller the Baby Killer"; he was called a Nazi; he was said to be "operating a death mill"; and "has blood on his hands." During one segment, O'Reilly said:

    "I wouldn't want to be these people if there is a Judgment Day. I just -- you know ... Kansas is a great state, but this is a disgrace upon everyone who lives in Kansas. Is it not?"
    http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...against-tiller

    Protesters against abortion are legally allowed to have peaceful gatherings. Judge Sotomayor ruled as such:
    In a 2004 case, she largely sided with some anti-abortion protesters who wanted to sue some police officers for allegedly violating their constitutional rights by using excessive force to break up demonstrations at an abortion clinic. Judge Sotomayor said the protesters deserved a day in court.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/28/us...8abortion.html

  13. Default

    Bill.O spent more than a year demonizing the doctor. This will not be the last time Fox's never ending hate mongering sparks some other tragedy. They need to be put off the air for America's safety.

  14. #14

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    maybe I should have worded that better. It is something I feel very strongly about. How many of those women were in danger of losing their lives????????? probably not many. I need to reread some of what I have read about him, but he was being investigated and had charged previously for crimes. This man was a baby killer, not a saint like the left is trying to paint him out to be. I could not agree with Bill O"Reilly anymore.Good for him, I definetly would not want to be him or anyone who could take a life of a baby or anyone for that matter. He was not dedicating his life to "helping others" he dedicated his life to killing babies. that is just so sick to me. Were better off now because he's gone. Keith olbermann, is just a sick person accusing O'Reilly of being involved somehow in the death of Tiller. that is the lliberal media for you these days.

    GOOD FOR FOX, THANK GOD FOR THEM . They are the NUMBER ONE cable news outlet for a couple ps yrs for bringing this kind of crap to light that toy libs are condoning. YEAH FOX KEEP IT UP. Most people are obviously wanting to hear it since they are number one or they would be tuning into the CNN or God forbid, MSNBC.
    Last edited by breannaw; June 2nd, 2009 at 04:07 PM.

  15. Default

    Well. if you enjoy hate mongering night after night, year after year, have at it. I am positive that all this hate Fox spews on a daily and nightly basis will come to a very bad end. Hatred always does.

  16. #16

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    How many of those women were in danger of losing their lives????????? probably not many.
    How do you know this? Were you in the clinic? Do you have a license to practice medicine?
    Were better off now because he's gone
    So, this was a justified killing? Dr. Tiller had it coming?

    None of us can say what it would be like to be in that situation, and probably we'd be grateful to at least have the *choice*.
    Izzy, you bring up a very good point. This morning on the radio, a man called in. He said that 2 years ago he and his young wife were very excited that she became pregnant. At about 4 months, they looked at the sonogram of the baby. They then were told that the baby was severly deformed and caused a serious threat to the wife's health. Even if the baby was brought to term, he would not live for more than one day. This man and his wife made the heart wrenching decision to end the pregnancy. None of these decisions are made easily or for fun. The man then started crying, telling the radio host that he was, at that moment, holding their new beautiful, healthy baby. That baby gave him the courage to tell their sad story.
    I beagn to cry too! This issue is not back and white. There are many shades of gray.

  17. #17

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    My friend suffered from HELP syndrom about 5 months into her pregnancy. The pregnancy had to be terminated or else she would have died.

    Abortion is not a black and white issue. There is a lot of grey in there as well.
    Michelle is the best

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by evergreen View Post
    Well. if you enjoy hate mongering night after night, year after year, have at it. I am positive that all this hate Fox spews on a daily and nightly basis will come to a very bad end. Hatred always does.
    HATE MONGERING. HATE MONGEROING??????? You want to talk about HATE MONGERING.? What do you call what keith OBummer is doing, No wonder he doesn't have good ratings. Calling someone complicit in a killing is SICK and he could open himself up for a lawsuit, which I hope he files.

    The hate mongering comes definetly from the left. I have read other websites that point out and laugh at the left and their pure hatred for the right. Dont even go there. There is absolutely NO WAY you can compare FOX and any other new outlet. That's why FOX is NUMBER ONE and will continue to be NUMBER ONE.

  19. #19

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    Ratings aside, this thread is to DISCUSS how inflamitory rhetoric can incite violence.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shanny..._b_209521.html
    Bill O'Reilly's hit piece on Dr. Tiller is a training tape for Christian Fundamentalist Terrorists. Never did he ask the woman interviewed how she, as a 13 year old, got pregnant, who was the father, or where her parents were when she underwent an abortion at Dr. Tiller's clinic.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...ILNlwD98HFBDG0
    Recent cases of abortion-related violence
    By The Associated Press 1 day ago
    A look at recent cases of abortion-related violence:
    _ May 31, 2009: Prominent late-term abortion provider George Tiller is shot and killed in a Wichita church where he was serving as an usher. The gunman fled but a city official said a suspect is in custody.

    _ April 2007: Authorities say Paul Ross Evans placed a homemade bomb in the parking lot of the Austin Women's Health Center in Texas. A bomb squad disposes of the device, which contained two pounds of nails. There are no injuries.

    _ Oct. 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian is fatally shot in his home in a suburb of Buffalo, N.Y. Militant abortion opponent James Kopp is convicted of the murder in 2003 and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.

    _ Jan. 29, 1998: A bomb explodes just outside a Birmingham, Ala., abortion clinic, killing a police officer and wounding several others. Eric Rudolph later pleads guilty to that incident and the deadly bombing at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. He justifies the Alabama bombing in an essay from prison, writing that Jesus would condone "militant action in defense of the innocent."

    _ Jan. 16, 1997: Two bomb blasts an hour apart rock an Atlanta building containing an abortion clinic. Seven people are injured. Rudolph is charged by federal authorities in October 1998.

    _ Dec. 30, 1994: John Salvi opens fire with a rifle inside two Boston-area abortion clinics, killing two receptionists and wounding five others. Sentenced to life without parole, he kills himself in prison in 1996.

    _ Nov. 8, 1994: Dr. Garson Romalis, who performs abortions in Vancouver, Canada, is shot in the leg while eating breakfast at home.

    _ July 29, 1994: Dr. John Bayard Britton and his volunteer escort, James H. Barrett, are slain outside a Pensacola, Fla., abortion clinic. Barrett's wife, June, is wounded in the attack. Paul J. Hill, 40, a former minister and anti-abortion activist, is later convicted of murder and sentenced to death.

    _ Aug. 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller is shot in the arms as he drives out of parking lot at his Wichita, Kan., clinic. Rachelle "Shelley" Shannon is later convicted and sentenced to 11 years in prison.

    _ March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn is shot to death outside Pensacola, Fla., clinic, becoming the first U.S. doctor killed during an anti-abortion demonstration. Michael Griffin is convicted and serving a life sentence.

  20. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by breannaw View Post
    HATE MONGERING. HATE MONGEROING??????? You want to talk about HATE MONGERING.? What do you call what keith OBummer is doing, No wonder he doesn't have good ratings. Calling someone complicit in a killing is SICK and he could open himself up for a lawsuit, which I hope he files.

    The hate mongering comes definetly from the left. I have read other websites that point out and laugh at the left and their pure hatred for the right. Dont even go there. There is absolutely NO WAY you can compare FOX and any other new outlet. That's why FOX is NUMBER ONE and will continue to be NUMBER ONE.
    You can't file a lawsuit if the person is telling the truth and has the facts to back it up which Olberman always does. He's quite careful about that, unlike Bill. O. who just spews inconsistentces, half truths and outright lies at will. Fox will come to a bad end because it is built on hatred and lies.

  21. #21

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    Tim McVeigh built up his anger at the way the stand off at Waco was handled by the US government. Remember the world wide web was new then. He worked himself up to the point he blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City.
    The Ku Klux Klan uses the concept of the lone wolf. The leaders don't tell anyone to go kill someone or to set off a bomb or to deface a home. They just bang the drum of hatred, calling the intended victims evil or demonic or murderers. Many organizations that started with good intentions get hijacked. I think Operation Rescue is one. Many of its members have no intent to break the law, but many more have illegal violence as their goals.
    Another organization I am feel has been taken over by radicals is PETA.

  22. #22

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    What? Facts please. Show me ONE THING,ONE lie has said, even one half truth.Keith O NEVER tells the truth and FALSELY accuses people of being complicit in a murder. Yeah thats really being careful to get your facts straight. yeah.I read on other websites all about his lies and false accusations, the guy is an idiot. that is the most ridiculous comment I have heard today. You cant back ti up cause it's not true. If that was true he would not be the HIGHEST rated show on cable news. Ridiculous.

    Eventerbess, you're right about Operation Rescue. That group has definetly been hijacked.
    I've heard that about PETA but don't know much about them, other than they are a bunch of hypocrites.

    Violence is never the answer and I hope Mr. Roeper(or whatever his name is) is punished to the fullest extent of the law.

  23. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by breannaw View Post
    What? Facts please. Show me ONE THING,ONE lie has said, even one half truth.Keith O NEVER tells the truth and FALSELY accuses people of being complicit in a murder. Yeah thats really being careful to get your facts straight. yeah.I read on other websites all about his lies and false accusations, the guy is an idiot. that is the most ridiculous comment I have heard today
    The only ridicilous thing is the fact that you have the nerve to make demands. Neither I or anyone else on the planet has to show you a damn thing.

  24. #24
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    I believe that news in general, (NBC, CBS, Fox, Fox News, UPN, WPIX, CNN... you get the idea) does a great job, and I'm being sarcastic, at spreading fear and propaganda.

    I went to a birthday party on Sunday where a met a young gal from Mexico. The first thing I thought of was Swine Flu, but I didn't get up and move to the other end of the room. On the contrary, I engaged her in conversation about what was going on there. She said that it was not as bad as the media made it out to be. And she believed that it was purely political, since there are problems with immigration, she thought this was a tactic used by the media (in general) to create anti-immigration sentiments.

    I like to watch news, period. But just as I watch CNN I watch Fox News to create a balance. Do they have an agenda? Sure they do. But to make a connection between Tiller's murderer and Fox News is just pushing it. If that's how it works, then I can blame NBC, CBS, ABC and the rest of the ilk of promoting hatred towards Christian values, which I truly believe we aren't too far from.
    "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    Izzy, you bring up a very good point. This morning on the radio, a man called in. He said that 2 years ago he and his young wife were very excited that she became pregnant. At about 4 months, they looked at the sonogram of the baby. They then were told that the baby was severly deformed and caused a serious threat to the wife's health. Even if the baby was brought to term, he would not live for more than one day. This man and his wife made the heart wrenching decision to end the pregnancy. None of these decisions are made easily or for fun. The man then started crying, telling the radio host that he was, at that moment, holding their new beautiful, healthy baby. That baby gave him the courage to tell their sad story.
    I beagn to cry too! This issue is not back and white. There are many shades of gray.
    This is the thing that people need to understand. I doubt very strongly that anyone would think that an abortion of a healthy, 9 month fetus is a *good* idea. Hey, I'm 50 years old, with no kids, and if someone woman is pregnant and doesn't want the baby, send it my way! I'd be happy to become a mommy rather than kill the little baby.

    These late-term abortions are rare, and horrible, and usually a way to end a long, difficult pregnancy which is going to result in a baby who will not live, anyway.

    But I digress...I'm against the death penalty because I believe killing is wrong. I'm against abortion because I believe killing is wrong. I'm pro-choice because I don't believe I have the right to make that difficult decision for anyone, and because I don't want to see the inevitable result of an abortion ban--poor women dead in alleys because the coat hanger didn't work; wealthy women paying doctors to perform the procedure "off the record"....etc.

    Do I get disgusted with people who get pregnant by accident and then act surprised and shocked when they find out they're having an "oops" baby? Heck yes! Do I get disgusted with people who have babies that they can't support and expect the government to take care of? Heck yes! But this is the real world we live in. In a perfect world every baby would be planned and every family would lovingly welcome it and care for it. Too bad we don't live in that perfect world.

    So, because we live in a real world, I'm pro-choice, anti-murder, and believe that this killer will be held accountable for his crime.

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