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Thread: Nobama ONLY Thread 2.0

  1. #76

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    PLEASE keep it like it is. It is so nice to be able to have at least ONE thread where we post in our threads supporting our candidate without it being hijacked by the opposing party supporters.

  2. #77

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    About Harvard and Law Review, my 2 cents.

    Harvard is a very tough school to get into, and students do get exposed to the best minds in the world there. This is an accomplishment on Obama's part that cannot be discounted. But just because someone went to Harvard doesn't mean that it makes the person a better president, or better at anything than someone who went to a state school. But it does mean that the person was at least smart enough to get into and get through Harvard law school.

    But to me, the Harvard law school thing is the least irrelevant part of judging whether someone has what it takes to be a US president. I think how a person did in undergrad is a lot more indicative. I've been to law school and I know all about law reviews. Law schools would be very important if we are appointing a judge or Supreme Court Justice. But for an executive position? Law school and a law degree indicate nothing. Lawyers are THE WORST managers of anything. That's why most law firms, especially big international law firms, are badly managed. Law schools teach nothing about management. And law reviews, you need only 3 things to be a part of it: (1) good writing skills, (2) capable of exercising a VERY conformist mind--because to get on it, you must write and submit an article on a legal question in a manner that conforms to the tee a particular method of analysis, and the answer must be one of the few outcomes the the law review student judges expect in advance -- if you dare or try to provide a creative solution, you will not get onto the law review, (3) skilled at beating the system -- you know exactly what kind of article to hand in to get onto the law review, providind legal answers that the student judges expect, rather than what you really think about the legal question.

    Law review is a joke. Nobody cares about it outside of the academic domain. Even practicing lawyers don't read law review articles. And the President of any law review does not manage or organize anything. He or she just delegates articles to other law review students to review and edit. Heaven helps us if this is all the management skills a presidential candidate has.

    More indicative of whether someone could be a good president is his or her undergrad experience. Was this person intellectually inquisitive? Was he or she active in participating in campus activities? What type of activities or causes did the person get involved in? How did this person relate to other students, professors and friends?

    We are not really able to judge McCain on this, as he is way past his college education days and anyway whatever his education experience, it was surpassed by his experience in Hanoi. Sarah Palin's unconventional choices (jumping from school to school) may be a cause for concern for some. Obama's we can't tell because he doesn't reveal much about what happened to him at Columbia.
    Last edited by probativev; September 22nd, 2008 at 12:43 AM.
    Alexa

  3. #78

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    New York State Independence Party to endorse John McCain

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...ty_to_end.html

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    More indicative of whether someone could be a good president is his or her undergrad experience. Was this person intellectually inquisitive? Was he or she active in participating in campus activities? What type of activities or causes did the person get involved in? How did this person relate to other students, professors and friends?

    We are not really able to judge McCain on this, as he is way past his college education days and anyway whatever his education experience, it was surpassed by his experience in Hanoi.
    All of the candidates are way past their college days; why would we be less able to judge McCain? Here's what we know (from public records and McCain's own statements) about McCain's undergrad experience (at the Naval academy): He finished fifth from the bottom of his class (something like 894 out of 899) and frequently got in trouble for breaking the rules. He has said himself that he barely graduated.

    At Columbia, Obama participated in a few activities (he was in a group working to end apartheid) but concentrated on studying so that his grades would be high enough to get into Harvard. Various classmates have described him as sociable, but less party-oriented than they were.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by moxie View Post
    All of the candidates are way past their college days; why would we be less able to judge McCain?
    Because the kind of experience like being a POW changes a person. I know some people are sick of hearing about McCain's war stories, but it would be denial to not admit and recognize that this kind of extreme experience will change every person from his or her core. Unfortunately, the change is usually for the dramatic worse. Look at the Vietnam veterans who are now homeless or in destitute. When Tom Cruise's movie Fourth of July came out, it struck a national nerve. Likewise with Gary Sinise's character in Forrest Gump. The sad thing is that at least the Cruise and Sinise only played a vet and their experience were fictional. The veterans came back from Vietnam and many many were no longer who they used to be before they left. It is not about how long ago they were in college.

    I'm not saying whether McCain changed for the worse for for the better after his experience, which was even more extreme than many other vets'. People are going to think whatever they think anyway about what he got out of that. But to consider McCain the same person as he was before he went to Vietnam when he was at the Naval Academy is pure denial of common sense IMO.
    Alexa

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    Because the kind of experience like being a POW changes a person. I know some people are sick of hearing about McCain's war stories, but it would be denial to not admit and recognize that this kind of extreme experience will change every person from his or her core.

    --snip--
    But to consider McCain the same person as he was before he went to Vietnam when he was at the Naval Academy is pure denial of common sense IMO.
    There is no doubt that McCain's POW experience changed him, but that wasn't the subject, either of your post or my reply to it. I was responding about this specific section of your previous post (which stated that Obama's record of achievement at Harvard was not really relevant in assessing his ability to be a good president):

    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    More indicative of whether someone could be a good president is his or her undergrad experience.
    Those are your exact words. So could you please explain what McCain's undergrad experience at the Naval Academy (barely graduated; frequently broke rules) says about his ability to be a good president?

    It is possible to do this without stating that, some years after his undergrad experience, he was a POW?

  7. #82

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    I did say in my original post that his college experience was surpassed by his wartime experience. Please go back and read. But if you must take specific parts of what I say out of context to make a point, then there's nothing more for me to respond to.
    Alexa

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    I did say in my original post that his college experience was surpassed by his wartime experience. Please go back and read. But if you must take specific parts of what I say out of context to make a point, then there's nothing more for me to respond to.
    ok, here is the context (the entire quote is too long, but this has all the surrouding materal):

    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    More indicative of whether someone could be a good president is his or her undergrad experience. Was this person intellectually inquisitive? Was he or she active in participating in campus activities? What type of activities or causes did the person get involved in? How did this person relate to other students, professors and friends?

    We are not really able to judge McCain on this, as he is way past his college education days and anyway whatever his education experience, it was surpassed by his experience in Hanoi.
    So, you have stated that in the case of Obama, it is his undergrad experience that is more important than what came later (Harvard honors and a top leadership role with the Law Review).

    Then, for McCain, you say we can't judge his undergrad experience (you still haven't explained why not, since it was a matter of public record), but even if we could, it's not important because nine years later he was a POW?

    I agree that McCain's POW experience was a pivotal time in his life. What I don't understand is what that has to do with your statement that, when assesing how academic achievement relates to the ability to be president, the undergrad experience counts more than the graduate experience. It's an apples/oranges comparison.

  9. #84

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    Moxie, have you been hanging out with Charlie Gibson lately?

    I already explained what I meant. And I won't subject myself to anymore harrassment. You can carry on about this without me.
    Alexa

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    Moxie, have you been hanging out with Charlie Gibson lately?

    I already explained what I meant. And I won't subject myself to anymore harrassment. You can carry on about this without me.
    I very politely asked you to explain your post, since I was unable to understand the logic of it. When your answer addressed a different matter than your original subject of undergraduate education (once again changing the subject to McCain's POW days), I very politely asked a second time for you to explain your original post.

    How is that "harrassment"?

    I guess if you don't like a question, the best response is to attack the questioner.
    Last edited by moxie; September 22nd, 2008 at 10:48 AM.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    Moderator's Post

    Ok I don't know where this is all going and how you all want to organize things. This is the Nobama thread. I personally have no problem with Obama supporters coming in here to defend him, but if that's the case, then any McCain supporters and anti-Obama posters will also be allowed to go into anti-McCain threads and any potential anti-Palin threads to too to defend them too. So you guys can decide how you all want it, since there is no MKF rule about that.
    Alexa, that's what you told us we could do before the CRASH. You told us anyone could post in any thread so long as it was respectful. That's changed now???

  12. #87
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    Oh the arrogance and financial mismanagement. Glad to hear Camp HW are crawling out of North Dakota with their tails between their legs. It's hard to believe he opened 11 campaign offices in North Dakota, a solid red state with a population of less than a million people! Good strategic use of campaign funds. I don't call that "audacity of hope", just plain audacity. HW was so sure he was going to paint the entire country blue. Looks like the bitter clingers of North Dakota aren't buying it.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...thdakota_N.htm
    Last edited by MKGrace; September 22nd, 2008 at 04:11 PM.

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKGrace View Post
    Good strategic use of campaign funds. I don't call that "audacity of hope", just plain audacity.
    Yes, Obama had the audacity to recognize that in a tight primary, winning a state like North Dakota (which he did win with 61% of the vote) could give him some important delegates. With McCain not campaigning there, the Obama staff stayed there after the primary in a bid not just to help his own campaign, but to build a stronger base of support for other Democratic candidates in state and local races.

    Now that the state's early balloting is about to begin, the campaign there is essentially over & the N.D. staffers (about 50 people; small potatoes for a campaign) are being transferred to the nearby battleground states of Wisconsin and Minnesota for the final weeks of the campaign.

    I guess I don't see why this is such a big deal. Consider it a small way of helping the economy of North Dakota, which has seen precious little of McCain's money.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by moxie View Post
    I guess I don't see why this is such a big deal. Consider it a small way of helping the economy of North Dakota, which has seen precious little of McCain's money.
    Helping the economy?? I call it wasting donors' money money on a state he has little to no hope of winning in the general election. McCain is spending the donated funds entrusted to him more wisely by not wasting time in states he's almost surely going to win.

    I know if I donated money to the Obama campaign (), I would be annoyed to know that my hard-earned money was being spent in North Dakota of all places (), instead of critical battleground states like Ohio and Florida.

  15. #90

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    These reports of racial bias against Obama seems to me more of an excuse when BO loses the election. His supporters cannot use Hillary as an excuse to have lost the race since she has done everything asked of her (more than what I think she should have done considering how her party treated her). The BO campaign has to find something to use in the future. As a black/hispanic person I am tired of the race baiting by some supporters in the BO campaign and some of the media. Does he want the sympathy vote now?

    The youtube of BO literally yelling and pointing to answer a woman's question that was in a previous reply in this thread really shows the arrogance of this man.

  16. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKGrace View Post
    I know if I donated money to the Obama campaign (), I would be annoyed to know that my hard-earned money was being spent in North Dakota of all places (), instead of critical battleground states like Ohio and Florida.
    Well, I'm sure the Democrats in North Dakota (there are indeed some) were happy to see that they weren't ignored. Maybe they will even make some extra donations.

  17. #92
    cmacd Guest

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    http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2...-barack-obama/

    Don't know if you guys have seen this -- somewhat funny!

    Moxie - please note. I said somewhat funny. I did not write the information. I only read it. I did not check it against the M&M twins fact book. Please feel free to do so though.

  18. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmacd View Post
    Moxie - please note. I said somewhat funny. I did not write the information. I only read it. I did not check it against the M&M twins fact book. Please feel free to do so though.
    Well, since you asked, here are two errors I found in 20 seconds of scanning:

    It says Palin was Wasilla mayor for 10 years; that number should be 6.
    The private sector job experience for Obama omits the 12 years he was a law professor at the University of Chicago.

    I don't remember if the section on Palin's religion mentioned that she was in attendance this summer when a guest pastor made anti-Semetic remarks (the gist was that a recent terrorist attack in Israel was proof that God wanted Jewish people to convert to Christianity), but whatever ...

  19. #94

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    I have been hearing a lot recently that Bo might dump Biden on Oct 5th and pick Hillary as his new running mate!!. I don't see it happening because it would reflect badly on "The One" at a time when he needs to be making the right decisions the first time.

    Also, I have been away from the politcal life for several days and the forum was still down, and have not heard anyting from the MSM regarding this .
    According to "New Republic.com, Right Pundits.com, nationalreview.com, etc/ Obama has violated the Logan Act by trying to negotiate with the leaders in Irag and General Petraeus.He was putting the troops lives in peril just so he can win an election and take credit for getting the troops out of Iraq. He is so utterly REPUGNANT and just beneath contempt. He should be sitting in a prison cell instead of running for Pres. of the US. Violating the Logan Act is punishable by 3 yrs in prison.

    His campaign is responsible for the smears on Gov.Pailin too. Is there nothing he will not do to win. What a loser.

    www.corner.nationalreview.com
    Last edited by breannaw; September 22nd, 2008 at 09:42 PM.

  20. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by madison View Post
    Alexa, that's what you told us we could do before the CRASH. You told us anyone could post in any thread so long as it was respectful. That's changed now???

    Nothing's changed. Just checking in, to make sure everyone is ok with Obama supporters defending Obama in Nobama thread, and McCain supporters can defend McCain in the Shame on MsSames thread, even if defense posts are not in line with the thread subject head.
    Alexa

  21. #96

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    I never talked about Obama and Ayers before because everything I heard until now were from blogs and not credentialled sources. This is the first credible report I ever read, from the Wall Street Journal, titled Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism on Schools.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html

    It would appear that this is the left wing counterpart to the extreme right wing that rejects science in favor of religion, except the Ayers education project rejects science and math in favor of small c communist ideologies.
    Alexa

  22. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by probativev View Post
    Nothing's changed. Just checking in, to make sure everyone is ok with Obama supporters defending Obama in Nobama thread, and McCain supporters can defend McCain in the Shame on MsSames thread, even if defense posts are not in line with the thread subject head.
    Thanks, Alexa. I've figured out to implement the ignore feature under this version of VBulletin. Whoever wants to post whatever, can go right ahead and...I can choose to ignore and not respond. "La, la, la...I can't hear you" is Chicken Soup for the souls of those of us who are weary of the "in your face" Obamacrats who post here.
    Last edited by vive_la_reine; September 23rd, 2008 at 01:31 AM.

  23. #98
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    Glad to see somebody getting in the MSM's face about their shameless HW bias. I'd like to buy this woman a drink:

    The exchange came on a day when one woman in the audience at a McCain event in Scranton, Pa., grabbed a microphone, turned toward the assembled press and accused the journalists of liberal bias. The woman ripped reporters for focusing on the pregnant teenage daughter of Palin, the GOP vice presidential nominee, while largely ignoring Obama’s ties to radical Bill Ayers and controversial Chicago businessman Tony Rezko.
    Complete article:

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09...bama-advocacy/

    Of course you won't hear about this on CNN. On the Political page of their website there's a huge Obama campaign ad. No surprise he's advertising there. CNN is happy to shove him down our throats.

  24. #99
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    On a side note, sorry to see the Server Crashed thread gone. It must have gotten really interesting...sorry I missed it.

  25. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKGrace View Post
    Glad to see somebody getting in the MSM's face about their shameless HW bias. I'd like to buy this woman a drink:
    Quoting the lady:

    “We want the media to start doing their job and stop picking on little children because of their age and their pregnancies,” she exclaimed. “Shame on you! Shame on all of ya’s!”
    Let's make that a double!
    Last edited by vive_la_reine; September 23rd, 2008 at 01:37 AM.

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