7 Triple programs

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by jenaj

The irony is that COP, which was supposed to make figure skating more of a sport (or at least so I have heard), is causing it to devolve. As other Olympic athletes continue to break records in speed and height, figure skaters are going backwards, with fewer triple jumps overall and fewer difficult types of jumps.

If you define figure skating by jumping alone, then all art is lost. The emphasis on nothing but the jumps which is a holdover from the 6.0 era, saw World Champions who could barely do some of the standard spins, and who gave scant time or energy to the intricate steps which now form footwork. The overall skating skills of the younger skaters that I see at club comps is much higher now than it was 10 years ago. You have to learn your spins to get your levels. You have to be able to execute moves in the field with enough mastery to go right into the next element in your program. All of these things involve complex technical and athletic skills that display the skater's mastery of the blade and not just the jumps.

The problem was there were no bonus points for being a great spinner. The only thing that got you noticed with the judges, were the jumps so skaters focussed on the jumps because that's what the judges were rewarding. Great footwork and spinning skills were being lost as skaters knew they had to jump to win. Now they can garner points on every element so all of the skills become important.

[gratefulmkfan]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

I don't think this can be said often enough.

A couple of years ago, the Canadian version of ESPN Classic was running skating tapes from the late 70's/early 80's and the comparison between the basic skating and blade control of the competitors compared to today's skaters was astounding. The quality of the footwork, stroking and spins compared to the skating 10 years ago was like night and day.

I agree with many of your comments regarding the way the programs are constructed and the failure of the judges to properly apply the scoring, but at least the basic skating is improving, as well as spinning skills, and now the federations are instructing their coaches to teach figures as a way to improve blade control for CoP programs.

Thanks for sharing that information. Which federations are insuring that their skaters learn figures? All of them - even USFSA? That would be wonderful, and at least we would see the results of the improvements in skating skills within a few years. This news is indeed encouraging. I am delighted to learn that there is still hope for the sport.

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by gratefulmkfan

Thanks for sharing that information. Which federations are insuring that their skaters learn figures? All of them - even USFSA? That would be wonderful, and at least we would see the results of the improvements in skating skills within a few years. This news is indeed encouraging. I am delighted to learn that there is still hope for the sport.

No, not all of them and certainly not the USFSA who never properly tell their coaches to do anything related to CoP. The Japanese and Russian federations are the ones I've heard about.

Some Canadian coaches were already doing this. Patrick Chan's first coach had him doing figures for the first six months after he started skating, but then his coach was in his 80's when Patrick started with him and his methods were considered "old fashioned". That seems to have worked out well for Patrick, not to mention giving him the best blade control of any of the top men today.

[gratefulmkfan]

It's too bad it's just the Japanese and Russians so far. They will leave us in the dust of the future, but good for their choice. I do so enjoy Patrick Chan. His figures training is evident in his movement across the ice. I wish US coaches could be convinced of the necessity, but we are an instant gratification society - sad to say - but I confess that I'm an instant gratification kind of person myself.

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by gratefulmkfan

It's too bad it's just the Japanese and Russians so far. They will leave us in the dust of the future, but good for their choice. I do so enjoy Patrick Chan. His figures training is evident in his movement across the ice. I wish US coaches could be convinced of the necessity, but we are an instant gratification society - sad to say - but I confess that I'm an instant gratification kind of person myself.

It's not the always the coaches.

Figures take up a lot of space on the ice so it's difficult to get the ice time to do them.

Then try explaining to the parents that you're spending a lot of time and their money to teach their child something that is no longer competed. I'm sure they'll be up for that.

[gratefulmkfan]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

It's not the always the coaches.

Figures take up a lot of space on the ice so it's difficult to get the ice time to do them.

Then try explaining to the parents that you're spending a lot of time and their money to teach their child something that is no longer competed. I'm sure they'll be up for that.

I get the point. I see where that could be a hard sell, but if the coach is convincing enough, explains the future benefits in competition, especially now that SS are judged as a component of CPS, it's hard to believe those with deeper pockets wouldn't opt for the long-term, but almost guaranteed favorable results. I realize most youngsters just want to learn jumps, but somebody has to guide their training to get them to the place where they can be the best they can be, No? Am I too idealistic in this regard?

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by gratefulmkfan

Am I too idealistic in this regard?

Yes you are. Everything you say is absolutely correct and reasonable in terms of preparing your child for a career as a top level competitor. And if everyone involved is on that same page as well. All too often they're not.

Most parents sign their kid up for figure skating lessons to teach them basic skating skills, like you sign your kids up for swimming lessons in summer. At least in Canada they do. They're taking their kid to the local figure skating club to learn to skate not to take a crack at becoming World Champion 15 years and enough money to purchase a second home later. They would have little interest in spending the money and effort to start with figures.

It's only after you get to the rink and the child loves it or displays a talent and/or a desire to get further involved, do you take it to the next level. Now there are some parents who take their kid to the rink in the hopes of having some coach "discover" their talented child, but they're the exception, and quite frankly, they're a little scary.

I have also noted that parents with deep pockets and a firm belief that their child is a "Stah" often become victims of coaches who are willing to exploit that belief because it puts food on their table to do so. Such coaches will sandbag kids at a level where the child can win medals and not move them up until they are in a position to do so at the next level. Parents might rightfully wonder if this was being done to help their child or to further line their coach's pockets.

So you see, if your goal is for your child to become a top level figure skater, starting with figures is a good idea. Few parents start with that goal.