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Lara F
January 14th, 2000, 09:24 AM
Whoo-hoo! Michelle's in first!

Lara F
January 14th, 2000, 09:25 AM
Okay, the full results here...taken from FSW but I think they were originally posted on the French GPF site. 1. Michelle Kwan (E-U) 2. Irina Slutskaya (Rus) 3. Maria Butyrskaya(Rus) 4. Julia Soldatova (Rus) 5. Elena Liashenko (Ukr) 6. Viktoria Volchkova(Rus) Lara Michele :-)

ChicaRealidad
January 14th, 2000, 09:25 AM
I got this from the FSW Spoilers Page -- Here are the results for the first Long Program in the Ladies field: Résultats du premier programme libre Dames 1. Michelle Kwan (E-U) 2. Irina Slutskaya (Rus) 3. Maria Butyrskaya(Rus) 4. Julia Soldatova (Rus) 5. Elena Liashenko (Ukr) 6.ViktoriaVolchkova(Rus)

winter
January 14th, 2000, 09:26 AM
YAAAAHHHOOOOOOOO MICHELLE .

SJB
January 14th, 2000, 09:26 AM
I wanted to be first! But anyway, here's the order: 1. Michelle Kwan (E-U) 2. Irina Slutskaya 3. Maria Butyrskaya (Rus) 4. Julia Soldatova (Rus) 5. Elena Liashenko (Ukr) 6. Viktoria Volchkova (Rus)

skateguru
January 14th, 2000, 09:28 AM
YIPPEE! MICHELLE IS IN FIRST. Hopefully she can keep up the momentum for tomorrow. I wonder how the other skaters placed.

skateguru
January 14th, 2000, 09:30 AM
Never mind - I just found out. This is great news.

Lara F
January 14th, 2000, 09:30 AM
SJB, you can try tomorrow LOL - I'll be watching the skating on TV so I should manage to avoid spoilers. Now, we just need details... Lara, who's very happy for Michelle and Irina and is now anxious for the pairs results to come in. :-)

SJB
January 14th, 2000, 09:33 AM
How are the results of the 1st LP and the SP going to be combined? Is it still that the LP counts for 66%, and the SP for 33%? Because, if so, it looks like Victoria might already be out of the medals (which would be too bad). Or do they add up ordinals or placements--because that'll be very confusing (well, to me anyway!)

Joshua
January 14th, 2000, 09:33 AM
I can't believe that we were all waiting for the results to come out. My God you people are fast! =) Anyway, it turned out how I wanted it to be so far....Michelle and Irina. Now I can finally relax for a bit. I better pray again today. Go Michelle!

François
January 14th, 2000, 09:34 AM
I'm really happy for Michelle, that could give her moree confidence.

lavender
January 14th, 2000, 09:34 AM
Now I can relax for a minute. I wish we had the scores and details.

Armchairskater
January 14th, 2000, 09:56 AM
SJB, I'd like to know too what the weightings are, but it would seem to me that for this format to make any sense at all, the short program should be 50%. If that is the case, considering that Soldatova is sitting in 4th and the big guns finished in the top three as expected, she might have a shot at pulling up to 4th in the short, which would put her into the head to head for the bronze (and she might possibly be able to beat Butyrskaya in a head to head if the judges would stop padding her scores). It would take a clean skate in the next program even then I think, however, because I would also expect Liashenko to outskate Soldatova in the next program. Like most, I'm quite underwhelmed by Soldatova's presentation, to put it politely.

kwanette
January 14th, 2000, 09:59 AM
My kids were watching a video on cults and I kept trying to find the results! Then during my planning period, I used the very SLOW pc in the lounge...I just got home...I am soooo happy!!!!!

SJB
January 14th, 2000, 10:03 AM
Thanks Armchairskater. They give the rules on how they are combining the 1st LP and the SP to determine placements on the ISU's Grand Prix page, but all it says is: 1st LP: 1,0 SP:0,5 Can anyone decipher that, please? p.s., armchair, you are so polite--I am so "underwhelmed" with Soldatova's skating that I cannot think of a non-bashing adjective for it.

lavender
January 14th, 2000, 10:06 AM
I know this was talked about somewhere but I'm confused about this format as a lot of others are also but what was the purpose of this long program when it is really the short that determines who will skate for what medal?

Jenny
January 14th, 2000, 10:10 AM
From the ISU: ------------- Factors: Men, Ladies, Pairs Round 1 (Free Skate A) 1,0 Round 2 (Short Program) 0,5 Dance Round 1 (Free Dance A) 0,6 Round 2 (Original Dance) 0,4 Points, places or any other marks of Round 1 and 2 are no longer valid for the "Super Final". Round 3 and 4 are "Head to Head" and have no factors. Progress of Competition: Round 1 All participants skate their first Free Skating Program/Free Dance A. It is at the skaters' discretion, which of the Free Skating Programs they skate first, but Ice Dancers must skate Free Dance A. Round 2 All participants skate their Short Program/Original Dance. The result of Round 1 and Round 2 is the "Combined Result". Place 5 and 6 of the combined result in the single events, Place 5 in the pair event and Place 5 in the Dance event receive prize money, but do not progress to the Super Final. They will also take part in the Gala Exhibition. Round 3 Places 3 and 4 of the combined result compete with their 2nd Free Skating Program/Free Dance B in a "Head to Head" competition for the Final 3rd and 4th Place. Round 4 Places 1 and 2 of the combined result compete with their 2nd Free Skating program/Free Dance B in a "Head to Head" competition for the Final 1st and 2nd Place. Round 3 skates before Round 4. There is a separate draw in each Round to determine which Skater skates first. All skaters who qualified for the "Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final" will participate in the Gala Exhibition.

SJB
January 14th, 2000, 10:13 AM
could someone tell me what the factors mean--you know, the "1,0" and "0,5"? I humbly apologize for my ignorance.

Jenny
January 14th, 2000, 10:15 AM
SJB -- your post slipped in while I was writing mine! Basically, the *combined* standings of today's 1st long program and tomorrow's short program will determine who skates in the super final. Based on the factored numbers, it looks like today's LP and tomorrows SP are weighted the same amount that they always are in other competitions, but they're just being skated in the reverse order. In other words, today's LP counts more than tomorrow's SP, if I'm understanding it correctly (which I very well may not be!).

sw10025
January 14th, 2000, 10:18 AM
1. Yippee Michelle! Yeah! :-) 2. What the heck happened to Volchkova to be in *last* place?! She's better than that! I mean, she's no Michelle, but she's infinitely preferable and better than Julia. Well, I hope she does fantastic on the next two programs, because (1) I don't want Soldatova to make the world team -- although I suppose I should because she's far less stiff competition for MK and SH; and (2) I don't want to eat crow if Soldatova does make the worlds team and I have to eat my words when I said there was no way that was going to happen (who was I arguing with? RCL the Evil Deathstar Master?). 3. OK, Maria, Michelle skated in Europe and she blew you away (as of Round 1). And so did Irina. It'll be interesting to find out if the top 3 ladies made any errors, because if they all skated relatively cleanly, it does not bode well for the judicial reception of a "mature" interpretation of Swan Lake. Kwan's and Slutskaya's programs are not only more complete choreographically, but their presentation of their respective music is much more dramatic and compelling.

Armchairskater
January 14th, 2000, 10:20 AM
It means that it is precisely as we had hoped it would not be, LP 66% and SP 33% and poor Volchkova is probably out of medal contention on the basis of a single program.

SJB
January 14th, 2000, 10:21 AM
As long as Michelle places at least third in the SP, she is the winner of the first round and will certainly be in the skate-off of the gold? And the worst she could do is get the silver? Because I have not much doubt at all that MK could place in the top three in the SP, but a little fear that Irina might place over Michelle in it.

Lara F
January 14th, 2000, 10:21 AM
This LP and the upcoming SP will be weighed as in any other competition (the only difference being that they're skated in the opposite order). The results then determine who'll be in each super round, if at all. I sure hope Irina prevents a Michelle/Maria matchup, if only so the networks don't get their way LOL. She's definitely on her way as long as she skates a clean SP! Lara Michele :-)

rcl
January 14th, 2000, 10:27 AM
SW- Get ready to chomp chomp chomp on the crow (remember how you mocked me about that??). Bwah ha hahah Good job Michelle!!

sw10025
January 14th, 2000, 11:05 AM
Oh boy, Maria has a big problem. I just did the math on possible scenarios, and there's not a good chance that she will finish in the top 2. The best possible score MB can get at this point is 3.5 (3.0 for the 1st LP, 0.5 for the SP). Michelle only has to place 4th to beat that score, 5th to tie it, and I believe because of the tie breaking system, she'd probably win that anyway (higher placement in LP). Irina only has to place 2nd to beat it, 3rd to tie, and probably would win that tie breaker as well. Assuming MK wins the SP, Irina would only have to place 4th for a tie breaker she would win. So if the tiebreakers are based on the program worth more (the 1st LP), even if Maria won the SP, Michelle could finish fifth and Irina 3rd and MK and IS would still get the top 2 spots for the final. I think there's a pretty good likelihood that they're both going to finish at least that well, if not better. RCL, much as it would gall me to see Soldatova go to worlds instead of Volchkova (I think we can all agree that Slutskaya's place is practically guaranteed at this point), I'll *gladly* eat crow as long as Michelle does well and wins. But I'm not conceding defeat quite yet: Volchkova could move up a little after the SP and Soldatova could fall down one or two places. They could finish forth and fifth, neither of which are spectacular finishes, and the Russian federation won't see much difference in these specific results and decide to go ahead with the stronger skater (VV). VV could also redeem herself at Europeans with a couple of good performances. So please wait and see before you start gloating over my imminent epicurean fate. sw "Anybody got a good recipie for roast fowl?" 10025

Dave
January 14th, 2000, 11:10 AM
According to what I read at FSW by someone who appeared to be very knowledgable about the factoring, etc.,in order for Maria to go to the Super Final 1-2 against Michelle that Irina would have to place at least 3 placements behind Maria in the SP tomorrow. Could be wrong. I don't know. They also stated that Michelle would have to be as low as 5th in the SP to be out of the Super Final 1-2 matchup.

Dave
January 14th, 2000, 11:17 AM
Looks like someone kinda already figured that out, that post wasn't there when I started typing.

SJB
January 14th, 2000, 11:25 AM
I think that this format gives us way too much information too soon--something else to complain about! I'm not trying to jinx anything but---it seems that, barring some pretty unusual mistakes in the SP, we already know that it's most likely that Maria will get the bronze. It's also most likely that Irina and Michelle will get the gold and silver, which one being determined mostly by whichever lady is able to keep on her feet better while she's exhausted. And, this is a perfect example of a SP in which Michelle has a positive disincentive to try the 3 flip--the 3 toe is quite good enough to get her into 5th. So the format also discourages the top ladies from pushing the technical envelope. If I wasn't an ardent MK fan, and very relieved to see a possibly very good outcome already seemingly on the horizon, I'd be bored right about now. So much for exciting new formats.

AYS
January 14th, 2000, 11:59 AM
SJB- You are absolutely correct about the lack of incentive for doing the flip. That whole line of reasoning occurred to me as soon as I understood the factor placements of this whole mess. This program was pretty crucial, wasn't it? Good for Michelle!:-) She skated cleanly, but we don't know whether she got the 3/3 yet.

Googoo
January 14th, 2000, 12:11 PM
Go Michelle! WOOO HOOO! I am so happy!!!!!!!!! And I'm happy for Irinia too! YES!

CollegeJock21
January 14th, 2000, 12:18 PM
It looks like Maria skated her "Opaque" in the first long program....why did she do that? Was she so confident that she'll place in top two for sure? Hmmm... By the way, I think it was extremely smart that Michelle skated to TRV for her first long :) What can I say? The girl's brilliant!

KwanBoy23
January 14th, 2000, 12:20 PM
Well I guess all of those people out there who said Michelle going to college would affect her skating were right...it's helping! She's done well all season and if she continues this level of performing the rest of the season I'll be very happy, whether she wins or not. (Although I'm hoping she'll get that 3rd world and 4th national title) We haven't had any consistent or back to back world champs in the ladies field for awhile. Keeping my fingers crossed. Go Michelle!!! Go Irina!!!

dreamr
January 14th, 2000, 01:50 PM
You guys lets not jinx anything by already claiming victory. I know I have already done this too but for some reason when we think Michelle is going to win something the opposite thing happens. Lets hope the skate Gods have their eyes and ears covered right now! And in my case their ears because after I found out the results, I screamed out "YES, GO MICHELLE!" That being said, I am extremely happy that MICHELLE KWAN IS IN 1st!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

sw10025
January 14th, 2000, 02:20 PM
SJB, I'd agree that the new format is absolutely stupid (although my selfish, ardently pro Kwan side is rejoicing 'cause it looks suspiciously like I may not be the only one eating crow, cough **Maria** cough, if ya know what I mean), but because you can figure out the likely results (matchups), it shouldn't ruin anyone's enjoyment of watching the skating (unless they are die hard Volchkova, B&S, B&K fans). OK, so it probably will be MK and IS battling for gold and MB and JS dueling for the consolation prize, but that doesn't mean the skating itself can't be interesting, and who wouldn't want to see a clean MK performance? I agree, Michelle was smart to do TRV as her 1st long program -- start with your strongest program in order to try to guarantee a top placement. And while Lamento d'Ariane isn't her greatest masterpiece, its certainly good enough to beat any of the other LPs in the final round. I find it interesting that Maria did Otopal as her 1st LP -- I wonder why she selected it over the Swan Lake number. IMO its certainly a stronger program and she's had more success with it, but I wonder if she feels that way. Was she trying to lead with her stronger suit? Was she trying to avoid doing Swan Lake head to head against Michelle's TRV before worlds? Very interesting.

SJB
January 14th, 2000, 03:14 PM
Yes, as AYS noted, this first program turned out to be soooo important in this crazy format---as I say, the results are almost already too determined. I guess that's why (also getting your LP before the judges, as someone pointed out) everyone tried their best LP in this round. I'm certainly still going be be interested in and enjoy watching the skating--and there's still enough to be decided to keep me watching. But, if one goal of using this format was to make the competition more "exciting", I'm just saying that it seems inevitably to have the opposite effect, by determining too many placements too soon, and by making scaling back your technical elements a good strategy. If they changed the order of the SP and LP, they should have realized that it would determine a lot of placements (especially with the silly head-to-heads) after one skate, and they should therefore have changed the weighting of the SP and LP to reflect that. New formats need new rules. I think the old format, where after the SP there would still be a chance for almost anyone to win or place, depending on who beats who in the LP, would have been a lot more interesting for those casual viewers that the ISU thinks that it's attracting. I'll be interested to see how the commentators handle this in the broadcast--will they be honest and point out things like, there is almost no one who can be in the championship "stupor final" (my deep and undying gratitude to the person who coined this term and the one who brought it to this board) except Irina & Michelle, or Plushy & Elvis, or that B&S and some dance teams are already out of the medals? Or will they pretend to be feeling great suspense over who will advance? I think that you have penetrated my real motive---that I hate this format and will look for any reason to complain about it:). And I am certainly not upset that it's set up so that Michelle probably can't do worse than silver, after only one skate. But---it takes a lot of the excitement out of the comp, unlike the usual one where you know that, no matter who came out where in the SP, the order could be completely altered, even for those at the top, by the LP results. I'm also puzzled about why Maria chose to do Otopal---strategically, as we have seen, it is very much to your advantage to do your strongest LP first (I don't think MB needs to get her new LP in front of the judges again). So does she think Otopal is stronger than Swan Lake? Was she trying to avoid a pre-Worlds matchup of that, TRV, and Carmen? Maybe it's because, again, the importance of winning in this first round is so great that she thought she'd do better with a program she's so familiar with. She hasn't had a clean Swan Lake performance yet. I am even more convinced that Worlds may come down to a pretty close battle between Michelle and Irina. Although I want MK to win, of course, Irina is certainly a worthy (and, as far as I know, a not unsportsmanlike) opponent. Well, hoping & praying that we get to see ALL MK's programs!

Karin
January 14th, 2000, 03:50 PM
MK...you're the best!!! I was in the middle of lecture at 1:40pm ET...and I turned to my friend and said "I wonder how MK skated!!! I hope she won!!!" Yeh!!! Good luck MK tomorrow (today for you in France!!!)...skate perfectly in the short program and the long program!!!...work your magic!!! Bring home the gold!!! Go MK!!!

aries2
January 14th, 2000, 04:35 PM
I definetly think this format is crazy and it must take so much out of the athletes, but in a selfish way, Iam kind glad that we get to see Michelle skate to Ariane one more time, I just hope that they air all three programs! maybe espn will air them in the future

sw10025a
January 15th, 2000, 05:09 AM
I agree with you: I hate the new format, its less exciting, I think its a bad idea because it wears the skaters out even more than necessary, diverts their attention to a third program when they should be refining their regular two, and the head to head format is a joke. All so the skaters can perform to less than full crowds in person and those of us TV viewers won't even get to see the additional programs. Wonderful idea. But the casual viewer probably isn't going to know the results thus far, and they'll most likely have even less understanding of the new format and rules. Confusion will undoubtedly reign supreme among the less die hard skating fans. Whether excitement will or not is another question. (Personally, I think excitement can be overrated. After the ups and downs and disappointments of the past couple of years, I'll gladly settle for the excitement generated by Michelle's programs themselves, and please, no excitement as to overall placements. Solid 1st all the way through the Olympics, please, MK?)

Buffy
January 15th, 2000, 05:23 AM
Is it really true that Michelle will be skating Ariane for the second lp? Where did she say it? I love Ariane!! Yipeee!

SJB
January 15th, 2000, 05:30 AM
You're right, SW, no one on this board or FSW seems to really understand what's going on, and the casual viewers' "excitement level" may not be affected. I still hope the ISU realizes what a *very* unfortunate choice of formats this is. Maybe Hersh's article might help them figure this out. And I'll go right along with you on hoping for a totally unexciting end to the season--straight gold performances by Michelle (winning Nationals & Worlds, ho hum, another day at the office:)