View Full Version : Araine jinxed and more comments

January 15th, 2000, 12:11 PM
I think Araine is jinxed now, lol... ok, I should be make excuses for Michelle, but I don't think she should have skated to that for the Super Final. I think TRV should have been used for the Super Final, and Araine for the 1st LP. I think most of us are thinking that we wished Michelle could have won, but at least this time there's isn't going to be a big debate about who should have won. Michelle was probably great, but Irina throughly deserved to win with her jumps and she seems like a good person :) I'm disappointed that Michelle lost but I think I'm handling it better then I thought I could... I don't know why. Anyone feel the same way? Michelle skated clean through all three rounds. Although she only did 6 triples in the LPs, she didn't fall during this competition... so it was clean. That's something to be proud of. I think Michelle might have won if it was the normal format, possibly. But I can't wait to see how Irnia and Michelle tonight! It's gonna be a LONG night of discussion, lol, after the broadcast. I hope to see Michelle up her anti for jumps now. She's gonna need it... Worlds is gonna make a VERY good competition!

January 15th, 2000, 12:38 PM
I'm taking it much better than I use to too. We have gone through michelle's ups and down and realized that michelle will lose some. It happen at the olympics and confirmed at worlds. These defeats made me realize nothing is guaranteed seeing that at the time I never expected her to lose those particular competitions. The only thing that worries me is that maybe michelle won't be able to match irina when they are both on and that it will happen at the olympics. I know deep down that the main goal is for mk to win olympic gold. That will be the ultimate. When she or if she wins that gold I will be satisfy and move on. If she doesn't then I would have wondered whether those 3 years leading up to olympics was worth it because I know that she is interested in other things now. I can't say that ariane is a jinx but I definitely thought that she should have used RV for the finals.

January 15th, 2000, 12:57 PM
super final...I don't think Ariane is anymore jinxed than Taj was....Michelle wouln't have won worlds with it last year even if she had skated cleanly and with a triple/triple combo. Maria would have had to falter and she didn't....FOC is where she made her mistakes in Worlds...I don't believe in a jinx....What I do believe is that maybe everyone is expecting more of Michelle than she has to give. Those of you who read my posts know how much I adore her...i am in a funk now...even tho' I shopped at a going out of business sale today and came home with bargains galore and was in a great mood. Can Michelle do much more than she is doing technically? Has she reached her technical peak? She said herself last year that she can't worry about what other skaters are doing...if she can't, it doesn't matter. I am fearful that she will soon find herself in a similar position to that od Todd Eldredge...a brilliant all around skater who touches our hearts, but who can't go on to win the Big Gold" because of that quad in Todd's case or 3x3 combos in Michelle's. Some of you may be mad at me for even thinking this....I hate to commit it to paper...screen....but perhaps this is how it will be. We used to think her artistry would carry her against a more proficient technical skater. That theory was shot to hell by Tara. Now Irina and the up and coming young Americans who are combining artistry and jumping...I won't say technique...(but somehow the two of late seem to be interchangeable). Is college too much? Or is it that she has peaked technically and everyone else is moving on...I say this with a heavy heart....I love her to death, and I know that silvers on the elite level are great, but deep down, we really don't want to accept silvers....for her. What irina did today was fabulous...i have always liked her as a person and now her skating has improved....As long as I am being honest, I am glad it was she who beat Michelle and not Maria...I am glad it was she who did those jump combos and not Tara...I am not bashing here just being honest....I am really down over this...and I feel similarly to the way I did ...not as hysterical...as nagano. I just feel a sense of resignation about this....Bye.......

January 15th, 2000, 02:10 PM
with absolutely everything especially about how the she may never reach the ultimate like todd being one of the best complete skaters but because of the quad he may not get a medal. I wasn't that down about mk getting the silver and irina getting the gold because I do like irina and she did outskate michelle fair and square. But, when I found out that irina did all those triples I started to think about the olympics and realized that michelle may not have those type of jumps in her itinerary and her presentation isn't gonna always hold her up is heartbreaking.

January 15th, 2000, 02:26 PM
I always enjoy your posts...I have been called a pessimist most of my life..I like to think of myself as a realist...yesterday, at work I told my friend Sally that I would call her when I got the first results...Her response..."Who is going to beat her?"...meaning Michelle...I just got off the phone with two friends one an avid fan of all disciplines in skating and my other friend who only watches if Michelle is skating...They both agreed that the sport may be passing her by. I don't fault her, I don't love or admire her any less...People keep saying "Up the ante"...don't you think if she could have she would have by now? When is the last time she did 7 trips including a 3x3...clean program...I don't mean to sound harsh...she is not finished by a long-shot, but ...Yes, all things considered a silver is not too shabby...college, etc. But let's face it we live in a society that worships money and winning...there are no gold medals for character...

January 15th, 2000, 02:37 PM
ITA with everything that has been said... Just one comment though, Character does not make medals, it makes legends....

January 15th, 2000, 02:44 PM
Michelle can get herself back just at Irina did. Irina is 21 now? MK is only 19. In a way, we haven't really scratched the surface of what Michelle can do. She's been pacing herself and doing improvements in small increments. I hope that she does come out with the big guns, but I don't want her to burn herself out worrying about it nor injuring herself. I want her to take this as a positive and bounce back with a vengeance. She talked about the technical jumps she wanted to include in her repetoir last year. I believe she now has to walk the walk and stop delaying the inevitable. She can do it. I'm pulling for her to really believe that she can be even better than we've seen her so far. I don't think she's peaked yet. She says she hasn't peaked yet and she knows her body better than we do. Hey, by the time MK is 21, maybe she can have all those jumps downpat. Let's send her some encouraging letters to never give up. I've never written her one because I always thought if I did, I might jinx her. Anywho, just a thought.

January 15th, 2000, 02:54 PM
There is no one who shows more humility in victory and grace and dignity in defeat than Michelle does. yes, there SHOULD be medals for character...but unfortunately there are not...yes, Michelle is a legend to me, a role model, and a heroine.I have written many letters to her, beginning in 97 right after the nats. I guess I wrote the last one right after the Goodwill games...though I did send her a Christmas card last year.Mano, I love your posts, too.I hope you are right..that she can do what Irina did...but I don't think it will happen with college. Irina obviously put all of her time and energy into this year. She had something to prove and boy, did she...I hope MK can do the same...Michelle has always bounced back...I am going to be praying real hard for her at Nats and Worlds...

January 15th, 2000, 04:18 PM
ITA agree with what you're saying. I always feel a little guilty when I read everyone saying how Michelle is going to win Gold in 2002. I'm just don't have that strong a feeling as everyone else. There's always someone with that "once in a liftime" skate. I've never said that either. However, I do think that she CAN! It is totally within her. But, that's if SHE really wants it that bad. I think(don't jump) that if she is part-time in school next year and takes oly year off and she REALLY HUNGRY, she can certainly do it. I truly believe it. It seems(maybe I'm wrong) that she doesn't want it the same as she wanted it before Nagano, and who would blame her. I think it's up to her. Does she want the next to years to be INTENSE focus and pressure on skating? I really don't know. She will do what is right for her. Like I said at FSW: I don't know how many more Gold Medals Michelle will win in her career, but I do know that she will more than likely win the BIGGEST Gold Medal that there is, being a good person with a happy and complete LIFE! What could be more important?????

January 15th, 2000, 05:25 PM
WHY think the worst and think that Michelle can't improve? Who woulda thought that Irina would come out of nowhere and whip out two awesome 3/3 combos tonight and take first place? Why can't Michelle improve the same way? Anyway I am disappointed that she didn't get first place. Sigh! LOL Kwanette I know how you feel re feeling kinda upset like with Nagano. She's really going to have to work harder on the tech now! Oh and I would not be surprised at all if she took the year off or took only 1 class in the 2001-2002 season. :o)

January 15th, 2000, 05:43 PM
You guys are great. So much of what you post fits me and how I feel. kwanette-It is so funny that you were talking about how people may feel that you are a pessimist but actually your just a realist. I was just talking to my mother after I found out what irina did in the comp and I was telling her how I wasn't sure about michelle's fate going into the olympics. I was telling her that I'm not necessarily being negative about the situation. I just think that I'm a realist about things that life throws your way. Mano-I too feel upset when michelle loses and even though the winner may be someone I like it doesn't make me feel any better. I don't feel bad about feeling that way just being honest. Rene- your one of my favorites too!!Your right about michelle. After seeing the competion I do think she could do it. She wanted it really bad before nagano and she is going to REALLY have to want it this time seeing that they are looking for the new and there's going to be much more competition by 2002. She just needs to decide if it's going be school or skating. One of them is going to have give. This is what her father stated.

January 15th, 2000, 06:25 PM
Thank you very much!!! I find myself nodding a lot too when I read your post 'cause it mirrors my own feelings. I feel the love folks, I feel the love!!! MK fans are great!!!

January 15th, 2000, 06:28 PM
Gosh, things did get pessimistic around here! I hadn't quite heard this tone since I've been here (reading mostly, occasionally posting) for 4-5 months. My thoughts: [1] I'm having a deja vu thing with Michelle at GPF and the 98 Olympics. She skated well but her opponent's performance that day was judged superior. This deja vu thing is making me feel the same pain in my gut as with the 98 Olympics. [2] My wife and I are attending 00 Nationals and we hope Michelle is awesome. That would make me feel better. [3] Michelle is one of the all-time good sports!!!!! I cannot get over her ability to face life with a such an awesome hard-working, up-lifting attitude. As much as Michelle winning the Gold in 02 would make my year/decade/century, I've gotta believe Michelle will keep enjoying life and being a successful person whether she ever wins again. There's just something about her personality that makes me think she is so awesome.

January 15th, 2000, 07:00 PM
i couldn't agree with you more kwanette. i have said this before and i'm going to say it again, time is the issue with michelle. between practice and college work, i'm surprise she still have the energy to compete. imagine after a mid-term or final exam, immediately flying to the competition site. she must be a bit exhausted. this will be michelle situation until she graduate or decide to take a break. as for irina s. repeating the 2 3x/3x combo within the next two competition i doubt it. but if she does repeat them, then i'm gonna start worrying. as for now, that remain to be seen. ok lets ask ourselves why irina s. had to do 2 3x/3x. 1- because she knew that mk has 1 3x/3x. 2-that if she skate cleanly without 2 3x/3x will not be enough to win over michelle. so in conclusion, the burden will always be on irina s. and other skaters who wants to beat michelle. they are the one who have to come up with difficult jumps. does that make sense?

January 17th, 2000, 12:04 PM
Well, barang, Irina has always been a great jumper, it's been her strength. And I think I believe what she said in the interview, that she'd been practicing the combos and felt that she had nothing to lose trying to put them in her free skate, so she did try them. She would get at least the silver, and maybe she thought she should try to pull out all the stops if she wanted to beat Michelle. I think that, if it turns out that Michelle can't produce two clean 3/3's, that she's reached a limit in her jumping ability, I'll still be more thrilled by her performances than by anyone else's, and I truly do not care what places she wins, except that she may feel disappointed. Win the gold silver, or whatever, I'm going to be watching Michelle.

January 17th, 2000, 02:41 PM
ITA SJB with your last paragraph. I haven't seen the comp :-( so I can't comment on Irina.

January 17th, 2000, 02:45 PM
I think I have shared all of your feelings at one point or another (depends on when you ask me and how my day is going LOL!) I agree that we live in a culture that celebrates winning but that doesn't mean that I have to. I will continue to appreciate MK for the qualities that make her stand out to me, especially her ability to blend the jumps smoothly into the choreography and to land them with such grace and smoothness 90% of the time. I also admire her gracefulness. I am also happy for Irina and her continued comeback and I hope she keeps it up. I feel that deep down inside MK would prefer a strong challenger rather than a weak field if she does indeed love the competition as she says she does. I would hate to see her give up her dream of attending college now and would suggest that she instead take less courses each semester and an extra year or two to graduate. I have a lot of students that are doing that while they work to pay for their education. I think attending college has given her skating a new freedom and emotion that I am really enjoying. I certainly think that with her strong technique, she is capable of adding more than one 3/3 combo. I tend to think that she hasn't because of either strategy or consistency. If she adds them, she will have to take the risk of falling more often but I think she will get more respect from the judges. If she doesn't add them, she will have to take the risk that a fellow competitor can beat her with a great performance. I am not all that worried primarily because when she has been beaten its because the other skater had one of her best skates. Right now she can win more often than not without 3/3's but when others start landing them more consistently (as with men's quads) she will have to take the risk of falling to stay competitive. If she really can't do them than I will accept that gracefully but I find it hard to believe that she couldn't at least do the 3 lutz/3 toe because her 3 lutz/2 toe is so wonderful and consistent. I also hope that she does the RV at nationals and worlds because I really want a clean performance of it and I am so bitter that she skated a clean performance of it and we only got to see clips :-((( (sorry for the long post but I am so happy to know that all you guys are out there and I am not alone)

January 18th, 2000, 05:37 AM
Marcella,     Yes, Michellle's 3 lutz/2 toe is very strong and consistent (very clean, too). But I don't think that we really realize the difference between a 3/3 and a 3/2, and how much more difficult the former may be.     Just a thought--you remember that when she had her stress fracture, Michelle couldn't do the 3 toe without pain, but the 2 toe was fine, caused no pain at all. That just says something to me about the difference between the two jumps and how hard it might be to put one in the place of the other.

January 18th, 2000, 10:57 AM
You know, I find it absolutely amazing how the mood on this board swings back and forth between exultation and despair, depending on how Michelle did. A week or two ago most of the posters were waxing poetic about MK's artistry, how well she handling juggling school and skating, how college was actually helping her, how well she did at the Japan Open, etc. Now everyone seems to be mired in defeatist resolution. And no offence folks, but I think this morose, depressed, negative attitude is more than a little unwarranted. I'll preface the rest of my comments by saying up front that I am an unabashed Kwan fan and will be to my dying day. I don't care if she doesn't win another competition ever again, I still will continue to admire and love her work, and think she is the finest ladies figure skater I have ever seen. Sure, gold medals and world and Olympic championships would be wonderful, awesome, and totally deserved, but there are no guarantees in life. She could perform the skate of her life in the 2002 Olympics LP, totally deserve to win, and get robbed instead. She could fall and still win. But neither those nor any other scenario change the fact that she is a great skater and one of the finest artists the sport has ever seen. Individual event medals are transitory and illusory -- Michelle has and will continue to have a track record that will make her one of the most successful and long-lived eligible skaters in the history of the sport. First off, under the circumstances, Michelle did an incredibly good job. This was her second competition in as many weeks, and at practically opposite points on the map. She put down three good performances, didn't fall, only made minor errors, and won two out of the three events convincingly. Only one of her competitors was anywhere near her marks. It sounds like her first two performances were much better than at her two regular GP events, and even Mr. Button remarked that she was skating much faster than he has seen in a while. As for the final round, well, she did a good job, marred by some unforced errors, which would nevertheless have won most competitions but Irina had a very good night. Sure, I too am disappointed she didn't skate better and didn't win. But its ridiculous to assume that Irina is going to perform perfectly from now on and Michelle's jumping will only continue to stagnate. That she can't or won't improve and augment her combos to the level she needs in order to beat her competition soundly. I look upon this as a great opportunity and motivation for Michelle. Some have suggested that Michelle hasn't been as hungry and determined as she was before the Nagano Olympics, and that her interests and priorities have drifted away from skating. I disagree. If Michelle had lost interest in eligible competition, she could have turned pro, made lots more money, practiced a lot less, and scheduled around her classes so much more readily and with a lot less pressure. She could have attended any of a number of easier schools in the LA area. She could have decided to do the bare minimum and just pass her classes, rather than trying to get A's. The mere fact that Michelle is trying to do a full course load at a good university (and get a high GPA in the process) as well as a demanding sport demonstrates how driven she is, that she wants it all, and that she wants to excel in everything she does. If she wasn't still very interested in eligible competition, she wouldn't be considering continuing to skate through the 2006 Olympics. That's someone who is still really motivated to continue to compete at a top level. That being said, sure I think there was a little complacency and playing it safe involved in this competition. But that complacency is most likely gone for good now, and that can only be to the better. If Michelle hasn't been even more seriously motivated and challenged by this, I doubt anything else could do the job. If this doesn't make her focus more on what she needs to do and improve, and how much time she needs to devote to training versus school, I can't imagine what would. There were those who said MK was washed up after the 97 season, but they were wrong. Michelle said having Tara was a good thing because it pushed both of them to improve. Well, now she's got a serious competitor to challenge her to scale new heights. The second good thing which will come out of this is that I think she and Frank will re-think her schedule, both school and skating wise. I'm sure she'll take a reduced class load from now on, with a commensurate increase in the amount of training time. I also think she's going to drop any extraneous competitions she doesn't have to do, like the Japan Open. It would have been better to stay home, rest and train, rather than jetting back and forth, and I'm sure next time she won't do so. Frank once said he likes to have at least three weeks between competitions, and I suspect from now on they'll stay as close to that time frame as possible. Third, I think this will scrap any plans to bring back Ariane for nationals. While a good program, and likeable, I never thought Ariane was really a superior, top-notch MK program. Its not that the program is jinxed, or any such nonsense like that, its just not as good as many of the other programs. Michelle needs to concentrate on TRV, which is not only musically and choreographically superior, but which also has more tension, drama and interest inherit in the music. She also needs to concentrate on building muscle memory and learning the breathing patterns for TRV with the new jump combos which she'll inevitably have to introduce. Dumping Ariane will help her focus and work on Red Violin. Fourth, we have to bear in mind that Irina's jump combos though spectacular and impressive, were less than technically perfect, and they were beatable. Her free leg on the 3z-3l combo just barely got back in time to check her rotation, and her 3s-3l combo was landed dead in the water, with absolutely no speed and flow whatsoever. And she's not going to execute them both 100% of the time and 100% correctly. If you compare Irina's and Michelle's marks, a couple of judges gave Irina a couple of tenths more on the technical mark, but a good number of them gave her only .1 more on each mark. If Michelle hadn't doubled her loop, 2 footed her salchow and been leaning on her 3toe, I'm convinced the marks would have been closer. If Michelle had even one good, clean 3-3 combo, regardless of difficulty, the marks would have been even more competitive, and she might have taken some 1st place ordinals. Two 3-3 combos of any type and the story might have been very different.

January 18th, 2000, 11:35 AM
Remember this is just a trial year for Michelle. This is the time to test herself to see how much she can handle with school and skating. I don't think this is the year to worry about upping the difficulty - although, I do have many of the fears that some of you have about her ability to up the difficulty. Last year and this year are 'filler' years IMO! In fact, I have wondered if she is working extra hard on school for now, so that if she takes time off in the next two years she won't get too far behind. Next year will be the year to really watch her. She will have a better prospective on what she can handle. Plus it is the year before the Olympics, which IMO is the time to up the difficulty. She will have a whole season to work out any bugs and be primed for the Olympics. Does this make any sense?

January 18th, 2000, 12:13 PM
Folks: I went back and checked the marks for the 2nd free skate, and only the Russian (who's biased) and French (who obviously preferred Irina, period) had Michelle more than .2 behind Irina, and several of the judges only had .1 difference between them. Even if Irina does everything she did again at worlds, Michelle could match her marks by cleaning up the little errors she made and one or more 3-3 combos.

January 18th, 2000, 01:14 PM
Ariane is not jinxed. I like TRV better, but I have watched the GPF Ariane program at least 6 times now. I think it is a wonderful program. The f.w. into the second 3z is more intricate, I think. Music is nice too. The tango part allows people to clap along. Mk looks a bit more fragile since she is thinner, to me that fits my image of Ariane. Go Michelle whatever program she chooses for nats and worlds.

January 18th, 2000, 05:57 PM
i noticed htat too.

January 18th, 2000, 06:06 PM
exactly, irina had nothing to lose so she had to put in that 3x/3x's to beat michelle, otherwise she have to contend with silver. so in conclusion, she was in a win win situation. now, the real challenge is the next competition when they meet again. will irina land the 2 3x/3x's? we'll see. like i said, in order to beat michelle, the competitors have to come up with big jumps. by the way, i agree with your last paragraph.

January 23rd, 2000, 03:52 PM
Just a few points to keep in mind: 1. Remember when Michelle first landed on the senior scene she was considered a "jumping bean". Just because she has redirected our attention away from her jumping and towards her artistic/presentation abilities does NOT mean she is no longer capable of pulling off spectacular and difficult jumps and jump combinations. 2. Because of her artistic/presentation focus on her skating I think that Michelle and Frank make dicisions about what and where jumps go into the programs not so much on how often she lands them but more so on how beautifully smooth she lands them. Look at her triple toe/triple toe at Skate America this year. She didn't just muscle through that jump, like Irina did on her remarkable 3/3 combos at GPF, but somehow she managed to make that 3/3 combo look smooth, effortless and graceful. We already know from reports of practices in 1997 that Michelle CAN land the triple loop/triple loop and more recent practice reports tell of her landing the triple lutz/triple toe I believe as well as another triple/triple combo. She definately can DO the jumps. I just think she and Frank want them to look as smooth and beautiful as the rest of her programs so they don't disrupt the flow. I think by the 2001-2002 Olympic season Michelle WILL be competitive with her triple/triples. 3. Michelle has been competing on the senior scene since 1993 I believe (maybe 1992). The MOST IMPORTANT thing that Michelle needs to pay attention to right now is NOT BURNING OUT OR SUSTANING CAREER ENDING INJURIES before 2002. By that year she will have been competing at this level for almost ten years! And although other ladies may have been competing at the elite level for a similar amount of time, like Maria B. and others, NONE of them have been consistently placing in the top two like Michelle has. We all know that training to a level that places you 1-5 at Worlds, especially with seven triples in your long program year after year, is far more difficult than training to a level that places you 6-15 at Worlds. Getting to Worlds is a remarkable and difficult accomplishment. But getting to Worlds and fighting to stay on top season after season is much more physically demanding. 4. Michelle's past track record, including her "break through" season with Salome and Romanza, her long program come back at 1997 Worlds, her 1998 Nationals history making performances, her grace in the face of defeat at the Olympics, her remarkable maturity since then, the creative stretching of her abilities with The Red Violin and A Day in the Life, has more than proven that Michelle comes through. She is a competitor through and through and a trooper to boot. She will not disappoint us in 2002 and MOST importantly she will NOT DISAPPOINT herself!! She will shine with a fire like we have never seen and one that will make her 1998 Nationals performances pale in comparison. It may not be pretty or convincing between now and then, but believe me, Our Girl has a drive that just won't quit coupled with an ability to rise to the occassion when no one expects her to be able to.

January 23rd, 2000, 09:49 PM
Deetles, I am really impressed by one of your points---that "the MOST IMPORTANT thing that Michelle needs to pay attention to right now is NOT BURNING OUT OR SUSTANING CAREER ENDING INJURIES before 2002." This is so blazingly obvious and true that I can't imagine why I didn't think of it before. These should be slow growth and gathering power years for Michelle, not a frantic effort to immediately match whatever her competitors coome up with. She needs to build up momentum, starting at Worlds 2001 (not this year's Worlds, it's not as important), and roll into 2002 with new techincal elements polished anad ready, and no injuries, and a fresh and competitive mind set. YES! Michelle and Frank, make any decisions that you need to, add elements or don't, cut back Michelle's schedule or don't, anything that's necessary to achieve this goal, and I will make absolutely no complaints. Deetles, my grateful and humble thanks for illuminating this important issue.

January 23rd, 2000, 09:55 PM
Great points, Deetlebug! Couldn't agree with you more.

January 24th, 2000, 01:47 PM
Aawwwww....shucks [as Deetles bats her eyelashes] Thanks for the support!! DeetleBug [who can't believe than anyone bothered to read such an overly long-winded post, let alone agree with it - W~O~W]

January 24th, 2000, 10:33 PM
Happy Birthday!

January 25th, 2000, 06:17 PM
Happy b-day to you Deetlebug..... ITA with many of you that MK has changed some of her focus in life... school, normal life and etc (maybe even a boyfriend somewhere) I really think she needs that!! Her skating might suffer a little bit, but MK can gain so much more by leading a normal life. It is in my opinion that MK stiff up at 98 because of the overwhelming pressure that was put on her by everyone. I hope that MK can experience other things in life and realize that skating for what it is, a sport. I was so proude of her when I heard her comment that " life is not a triple-lutz" That is what I hope to hear from MK, because at that moment I know she will never fall into the same trap again. I think MK is a very smart cookie, I am fully expect her to learn from all the ups and downs from her life and bounce back for more. It might not be gold medal she want most in her life now. that is okay for me. because "life is not a triple-lutz" and that is what makes MK special to me.

January 29th, 2000, 12:53 PM
Althought I've been lurking here for a few weeks this is my first post... so here goes. I've been reading posts about MK upping her technical difficulty and while I believe that's extremely important I think that her problem (if indeed there is one) may lie in the artistic part of her skating. Watching her competions this yeat I'v heard comments that range from, "Michelle sticks to the music and choreography that she does best", to Dick Button's infuriating comment that her skating was "stale". Although I completely DISAGREE with THAT, and agree with everyone here that her performances have been beautiful I sometimes think that maybe SHE'S bored with doing the same kind of choreography and using the same type of music all the time. As someone who is in addition to being a skating fan is also a "danceaholic", I have to say that I see Michelle as an artist not just a skater. I believe that she capable of great and inovative artistry. And someone like that who is told to up the ante technically but to hold to the status-quo artistically may not feel very inspired. Certainly for most it would be stupid to make any significant changes at all in choreography if they have, as Michelle has, found a style that is both lovely and successful. But when you've been so successful for so long people AND JUDGES become used to it. So when someone like MB or IS comes along with not half the artistic talent, but improved artistic programs, they have an extra edge and earn extra points for it. It may not be fair, but Michelle's past artistic excellence may require her to push herself not only technically, but artistically beyond what is normally expected of an elegable skater. Just MHO

January 29th, 2000, 09:49 PM
When in the World did Dick Button say Michelle's skating was "stale"? I've never heard that one.

January 30th, 2000, 11:33 PM
I'm sorry, I can't remember during what competition that he said it, but I do remember that he did because I was furious when I heard it.

January 31st, 2000, 04:40 AM
Didn't Michelle win the first two parts of the competition? If so, why be worried. She is a great skater.

January 31st, 2000, 11:07 AM
Jenjay, wasn't the D. Button comment made during the last pro am and the Hands program. I thought that he said something to the effect of that specific program didn't advance her artistry, wasn't anything new, not that her skating in general was stale. I'd be furious if I'd heard him said that it was stale in general, so I must have missed it if it happened. Can anyone confirm or tell me I'm wrong?

January 31st, 2000, 02:53 PM
sw, due to aggravating circumstances, I was finally able to watch the Kennewick, WA pro-am last night for the first time and Mr. Button said something like not branching out for her, not new, etc., and I didn't hear him saying "stale" at all. I also would have been quite furious if he said that! During the GPF, I thought he was complimentary of Michelle and her programs, until Irina skated and they did the "jumps,spins,footwork,artistry" comparison. I still think Michelle was more artistic, but Irina was certainly faster and more energetic, and of course had the jumps and spins. It seems to me that anyone who thinks her skating is stale, is not *quite* as sensitive to nuances as the rest of us :-)! It's kind of like saying all ballets by the same dancer are the same.

January 31st, 2000, 03:03 PM
Thanks, Sharon. That was my recollection as well: that his comments were directed at that specific program (Hands) not towards her skating in general. I too, thought his comments at the GPF were very complimentary, even to saying he thought her marks were a tad low, and then of course he changed course radically while Irina was skating. Hope he didn't hurt himself changing gears so abruptly like that. :-)

January 31st, 2000, 05:05 PM
I was so comforted by Irina's win at GPF -- and MK's program had nothing to do with it. In the past two years, there have been three major international competitions where MK has been crowned in advance -- and MK ended up with the silver all three times. With Irina acknowledged as providing some real competition, MK's chances at World's have gotten much better. In other words, there is no jinx in any program, only in all the commentary.

January 31st, 2000, 08:12 PM
I feel I must clear up a misunderstanding! I was not saying that Michelle's skating is stale. My comment was that because the judges are so used to the music and choreography that she uses, she may have to try diffrent things to challenge herself and earn consistantly the scores that she deserves, no matter who skates what. With the D. Buttton "stale" comment, I think it was very early in the season, concerned only that performance and was something like "in danger of becoming stale..." or something like that. I just remember that she'd skated the program beautifully and that I thought that the comment was unwarrented.

February 1st, 2000, 08:16 AM
What's up with these 2 faced commentators. I wish there was a way to call them out on it. Scott H was another one.

February 1st, 2000, 10:28 AM
Its not just D. Button and Scott, its all the commentators who box themselves in with predictions and off the cuff statements which they later have to scramble to correct or have plenty of time to regret (i.e. Peggy Fleming's remark that Michelle would have to leave the building to lose the world championship). I think it comes from some need to show how knowledgeable and clever they are by predicting the placements before the competition is over, and then saving face when they've been too hasty or careless in what they've said. But that's human nature, I suppose...

February 1st, 2000, 12:44 PM
I watched her Ariane program again and I think it's beautiful. She has all the jumps. If she hadn't doubled the one who knows what might have happened. She'll do the triple triple too. I didn't really like the triple triple that Irina did. She ended them funny.

February 1st, 2000, 02:21 PM
I wonder if there will ever be one where they say how they feel and stop jumping on the bandwagon after the fact. Say there was a competition and they were raving about the 1st of the skaters and then another skates great too but still like the 1st skater. I would like them to still say that they felt so and so was better even after the 2nd skater won. I guess this should be in fiction chat. I wish they would stop being so fickle. I have another one. Saying how maria recovered nicely after a fall and then saying "that's why she's world champion". That's not why maria is world champ. Maria would have lost if she had fell at worlds whether she had recovered nicely after a fall or not. Hahaha. I know I'm being silly.

February 1st, 2000, 05:52 PM
I really think MK will be working hard for the Olympics. I'm not saying she isn't working hard now b/c she is with college and all. MK is testing the waters with college and skating. I think like alot of you that MK will take a year off before the Olympics. Remember Debbie Thomas? She took a year off of college just so she could concentrate on skating and the olympics not that it helped Debbie any. Please don't any one get offended by that statement. I like Debbie Thomas, but was disappointed in her lp when she kept making mistakes! Any ways, back to MK. Who is to say that MK isn't working on 3/3's for Nats and Worlds. Folks she knows what she has to do and I believe MK has something up her sleeve and I am not talking about her arm either. Well thats my two cents.

February 2nd, 2000, 01:16 PM
Lavender, actually to be fair, my recollection is fading a little, but I have to give Scott Hamilton the commentator credit where credit is due. During the men's 92 Olympic LPs, I believe he did say point blank that Paul Wylie's mistakes were not as serious as those of Petrenko and the other top men (all but Barna had skated at that point) and that he was seriously undermarked for what he did.

February 3rd, 2000, 05:06 AM
Your right about scott that year but he sure did change sides in '98.

February 3rd, 2000, 08:21 AM
Well, as for 98, I can remember in the pre-Olympic coverage that he mentioned several times that people in the figure skating world assumed that if Michelle skated clean, she would win, no ifs, ands or buts about it, and he kept saying he thought it was a lot closer and more competitive than that. I believe that when MK skated cleanly he was happy for her, but when Tara skated, he was also happy for her, but even happier that he'd shown himself to be more clever than many others. Everybody likes being right.