View Full Version : New jumps for Michelle(no spoiler) JMHO

January 16th, 2000, 05:05 PM
If Michelle wants to compete with Irina technically...here's what I think she should do. Not too drastic. 3Lz/3T, 3F/2T, 3L, 3Sal, 3T/2T(if it doesn't break the Zayak Rule?), 3Lz.

January 16th, 2000, 06:34 PM
Um... IMO, MK's technique is not bad at all to compete against IS because she has excellent in-betweens such as charlotte, kwan-spiral, squat, difficult footwork, etc, etc. I partly agree with you, though... MK should work on 3lutz/3toe and 3axel to guarantee a win in the future.

January 16th, 2000, 06:47 PM
michelle has one 3x/3x already so she only have to add one 3x/3x combo. realize this , the burden of doing 3x/3x combo is not on michelle, it's the other skaters because in order to beat michelle, they have to come up with big jumps. make sense?

Kwan Luva
January 16th, 2000, 08:55 PM
Here are mine...In my my opinion MK is totally capable of pulling these 3-3 combos IMO,No doubt about it!How about... 2axel 3lutz-2toe 3flip-3toe 3sal-3toe 3loop 2axel half loop 2toe 3lutz these jumps would be perfect to fit in on her RV program.I choose those 3-3combos cuz she seems to get alot of speed out of those jumps.A3lz-3toe would be nice.However I dont think she has enough speed to pull of the 3 toe.What do U guys think????????

January 16th, 2000, 09:23 PM
...3F-3T to 3Z-3T. Michelle has more consistency and confidence with her 3Z than her 3F. That's one reason she constantly does 3Z in all her exhibition programs but so far hasn't put 3F in her SP. 3S-3T will also be a good combo for her because her 3S is pretty consistent. Of course, she can change both tag-on 3 to 3L. She's been practicing them. I think she has more consistency and confidence in her 3T though.

January 16th, 2000, 10:24 PM
I think this would be a more competitive layout for MK's long program: 2axel 3lutz/3toe (or 2toe)* 3flip/3toe (or 2toe)* 3salchow/2loop 3flip 3loop 3lutz 3toe (or Charlotte)* *If she lands both 3toes in combination, she does the Charlotte, if she doubles one, she definitely must land the other and do a triple toe at the very end.

January 17th, 2000, 02:46 AM
Barang- I just wanted to point something out re: your comment that Michelle already has one triple/triple combo. Because of the Zayak rule (same triple may only be done twice), if Michelle wants to have two 3/3 combos, both ending with a 3toe, a 3toe/3toe can't be one of them; that would result in 3 triple toes in the program. This is why everyone here is proposing 2 *new* 3/3 combos. OTOH, if she came up with a 3/3 combo that ended with a 3loop, she wouldn't have to can the 3toe/3toe. Even if Michelle didn't add a new 3/3 combo this season, I think it would help her tech mark just enough (assuming she nailed her 3toe/3toe) to add one more 3/2 combo that ended with a 2loop (ie. 3salchow/2loop or 3flip/2loop - I don't think she can add anything on the back of the 3loop right now, since she appears to be struggling a bit with the loop) One more point-I strongly doubt that Michelle is going to introduce a new 3/3 combo for Nationals or Worlds. (Next season is a whole new story) She is the type to stick to her game plan, and I don't think that was it. I imagine she will just concentrate hard on making sure she nails her 3toe/3toe. After all, that didn't even happen at GPF, and I imagine the results would have been much closer had Michelle landed that along with the loop and salchow. If she nailed everything she has planned at this point, doing one of the jumps as a 3/2loop combo, I think that would hold her in "excellent stead" at Worlds. JMHO.

January 17th, 2000, 06:49 AM
I hope Michelle doesnt do a 3/3 including 3loop. Michelles 3loop is very shaky right now, and i dont think she would have the maximum height to do the 3loop in combination. This is what I think Michelle should do... Red Violin... ---2axel ---short-entrance 3lutz/3toeloop(I think she should put the short entrance in combination because she always has good speed into it, and out of it) ---3salchow/3toe ---3loop ---3flip/2toe ---long-entrance 3lutz ---3toe/2loop ---IF she can at the very end, do a 2axel/2toe. I think this is a good, solid layout for Michelle. With these combos, I know she is very capable of them. What do you think...

January 17th, 2000, 08:10 AM
I know this is like totally off the subject with the jumps, but did it seem like all of the skater's looked exhausted? I thought they did. Personally I don't know why they would have them cram three programs in one day! Now on the subject of jumping. Michelle does have a triple triple already, but I think she needs to add one more triple triple. I also have to agree that the other skaters have to do triple triples in order to beat Michelle, cuz' if they don't they can't win, cuz' Michelle as far as I am concerned is the best when it comes to artistry! I could literally sit there and watch her skate all day although I know she couldn't do it because she would be totally exhausted! I guess if I am going to dream I might as well dream big! But then again, dreams really do come true! Oh well, I am rambling on about nothing right now, thanks for letting me do that.

January 17th, 2000, 10:32 AM
Michelle and her coach are going to work on perfecting whatever triple triples she has already been working on, and whatever fits well in her programs. By the way, in the comments on the GP final, a lot of people keep saying that they hope MK will go back the The RED VIOLIN for Nationals and Worlds. I think its clear that the RV is her long program for this season. She brought back Ariane for the GP final because of the rule that two different long programs had to be used in that competition. It must have been difficult bringing back a long program for one competition and then having to perform a long and a short program on the same day. I don't like the ISU's rule change for the GP final. It was done solely for television, and then they didn't even broadcast the entire performances. The whole format sucks (especially because the skaters efforts are wiped clean after the first two rounds and the third and fourth place skaters don't get to compete fairly with the top two competitors). I hope and pray this format is never used at Worlds.

January 17th, 2000, 10:38 AM
LuvMK-The reason people are mentioning the choice between RV and Ariane is because right before the GPF, a Hersh article came out saying that MK's interest in Ariane had been rekindled from working on it for the GPF; at that point, she was apparently considering the possibility of switching back to Ariane. You can probably find the thread down the list a bit.

January 17th, 2000, 01:08 PM
This is something I copied, I think off of Skatefans, last summer. I didn't get the poster's name, so I can't credit or confirm it. "Ann said that she saw Michelle land the triple flip/triple toe combination and the triple lutz/triple toe combination. Michelle did not do a full run through but worked on her jumps. But before and after the jumps she did the choreography leading into the jump. Ann said that Michelle looked great and was landing her jumps very well." So, those two combos seem likely candidates to me, since Michelle was (purportedly) practicing them last summer. But, we still don't know if she can do these combos consistently, or if she'll ever be able to. Like AYS, I don't think it that likely that we'll see any new 3/3's at Nationals or Worlds--I think that Frank and MK will decide that TRV is pretty well in finished form, and will want to go with what they've got this year. Even if that means that Irina pulls off a gold at Worlds, I think they'll stick with their game plan. Actually, I don't know enough, and they do, to make this decision---this is just my speculation. IF the decision is made to go with new 3/3's next year, I predict the 3 lutz/3 toe in place of her opening 3 lutz/2 toe, and (or perhaps or) the 3 flip/3toe in the place in the program where she now does the 3 toe/3 toe.

January 17th, 2000, 02:10 PM
I agree with the 3 lutz/3 toe; she started saying she would add that combo after '98, and she wouldn't have to change her choreography for it. I'd love to see the 3 flip/3 toe in place of the 3toe/3toe. I don't think it'd be smart to start trying combos with loops on the end, considering she's having problems with that particular jump -- stick with the toes. Anyway, here's what I'd like to see. -- 2 axel -- 3 lutz/3 toe -- 3 flip/3 toe -- 3 sal -- 3 loop -- 3 lutz If she doubles one of the toes, add the 3 toe at the end like always, or if she did a 3 axel in the beginning, only do one of the 3/3s. Actually, with all the talk of MK matching IS's two triple-triples, I think if MK could pull off her usual 3 toe/3 toe along with a 3 axel the judges would give it to her anyway. Look at the men with the quads -- Todd Eldredge and Matt Sovie can land triples till they're blue in the face, but Tim Goebel can splat on two of three quad attempts and still pull higher marks from the judges.....just a thought.

January 17th, 2000, 03:52 PM
I too would like to see her add another 3/3 so she has two. I don't care where or what, as long as she can do them fairly consistently. If not, then another 3/2 combo. I don't think we'll see a change for Nats, but maybe for Worlds. And yes, she blows EVERYONE away in artistry/presentation IMHO.

Ice Butterfly
January 17th, 2000, 04:11 PM
If Michelle can't pull off another triple/triple combo, how about working on something like a spiral into a triple, or a spreadeagle or falling leaf into a jump? I know this would mean different choreography and would not be feasible for this year but how about in the future? Michelle has always strived to be different esp. with music and choreography, why not up the technical ante, but in a unique "Kwan" way. As a final note, I think she is more than capable of doing another triple/triple combo, but just because everyone else is doing them, doesn't mean she has to do them too.

January 17th, 2000, 04:25 PM
Everyone knows how Michelle is having trouble with the 3loop, right? Well, I think the problem is that she has no speed going into it! Watch the GPF(if u taped it)and see how slow she goes into the 3loop in her Ariane program. All she needs to do is get some more speed, and think ...JUMP!!

January 17th, 2000, 05:30 PM
MichelleFANnumber1 -- ITA with you on the point about the loop. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who uses that type of classic loop entrance who lands the jump very consistently, Michelle being one of the more consistent. If anyone has tapes of some of last year's Pro-Ams, watch Yuka Sato's loop entrance. She gets a lot of speed on back crossovers, travels about 3/4 of the ice, does one quick turn, and then EXPLODES into the jump with great speed on the landing. I've only seen her miss it once, and I think a lot of skaters could benefit on that jump by switching to that technique.

January 17th, 2000, 05:45 PM
How about the 3/3/2toe??? Hee hee 2axel/3toe 3flip/3toe 3lutz/3loop (which she has mentioned) 3sal/3loop (which she also has mentioned) 3lutz/3toe 3sal/3toe Hee hee...

January 17th, 2000, 06:06 PM
3lutz/3loop 3axel 3lutz 3flip/3toe walley/one-foot axel/3salchow/3loop charlotte into 2axel This is just a fantasy, I don't expect MK to do all these jump combos! Actually I think MK should work on 3lutz/3toe and 3flip/3toe.

January 17th, 2000, 06:15 PM
(I'm just joking!!!) How about a spiral (may be the hand-touching-the-ice one where she leans) into a 3axel into the Charlotte into a 3flip/3toe/3loop into a layback spin??? Hee hee!!!

January 17th, 2000, 06:19 PM
that mk could do another 3-3 too! it'd be neat to see her do a spread eagle into a 3-loop...like kurt browning did at some comp. (i don't remember which one but i remember him doing it) but i know she's still a little shakey with the loop...i think that it'd also be neat to see her do a 3-axel combo of some sort in the future...but i don't really expect this..it's just a thought (or maybe a dream =)...he hee...

January 17th, 2000, 06:27 PM
now I can't stop imagining!!! LOL...I'm having fun!!! :-))))))) Question...Is it possible to do a Besti squat into a 2axel???...

January 18th, 2000, 06:48 AM
I agree with skatingfan21, if MK does TRV with the 3 toe/3 toe at Worlds this year, I think that's enough to be competitive with Irina (not a guaranteed win, but competitive). I don't know on what basis we think that Michelle's capable of doing more 3/3's, or a 3 axel, in competition--anyone got any facts to back that theory up? She does them in practice, but I haven't any evidence yet that she can do them in competition. We will see!

January 18th, 2000, 08:35 AM
I would be completely surprised if Michelle added any new triple combos for this year's nationals or worlds. Her programs are complete for this year. I don't think she will mess with them too much. Trying to change it up now would really throw off her rhythm in her programs. She needs to be tough and do her 3toe/3toe combo. she can add a new combo next season. If she improves her speed, she will have a terrific chance to add some more technical moves to her programs. MY Michelle Kwan jump sequence: 3lutz/3toe 2axel(would always love to see her do a 3axel) 3flip/3toe 3loop 3salchow(maybe with a 2toe on the end) 3lutz Go Michelle!!!!!!