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Kiana
February 11th, 2000, 07:57 PM
Some one please give an indepth report of what happened at Nationals. I did not get to see the SP because my boyfriend's stupid VCR did not time record. I am ready to die! I need to know INDEPTH about what has happened. Where did Michelle Kwan mess up? How well did the other girls skate. I am so depressed that I did not get to see the SP and now that *%#@ VCR did not record! HELP. ANYONE AT ALL.

susan ba
February 11th, 2000, 08:02 PM
go to spoilers or mk chat or <A HREF=http://fly.to/mkga >http://fly.to/mkga </A> there are still a lot of people there. i just left there and a lot of those people come here too

TripleLutz
February 11th, 2000, 09:07 PM
I am gonna give a report on what I saw on ESPN tonight of the Ladies SP: Angela Nikodinov - Eyes Wide Shut 3lutz/2toe, 3flip, 2axel Tech - 5.3-5.6 Pres - 5.3-5.7 NOTES: Really flat, slightly exciting because it was a clean performance, was in the lead of the ladies that had skated. Big time flutz by the way. Naomi Nari Nam - Classical piece; unusually unlyrical music 3lutz/turn/2toe, 2axel, 2flip Tech - 4.8-5.3 Pres - 5.2-5.7 NOTES: Really nice program, the lutz was so incredibly tilted and she was lucky not to fall. It was also very flutzed. The flip just slipped on the toe in the entry, it was terrible. Grade A spins though. LEADER BOARD: 1. Angela Nikodinov 2. Naomi Nari Nam Andrea Gardiner - unknown 3lutz/2toe, 2axel, 3toe Tech - 4.6-5.4 Pres - 5.0-5.6 NOTES: Wonderful skating, very nasty flutz, kinda tentative on the jumps, but clean. Wonderfully presented program. LEADER BOARD: 1. Angela Nikodinov 2. Naomi Nari Nam 3. Andrea Gardiner Deanna Stellato - unknown 3lutz(touchdown of hand)/2toe, 3flip, 2axel Tech - 4.1-5.0 Pres - 4.5-5.3 NOTES: She was pretty flat and tentative, the lutz technique was very poor, obvious flutz entry. The flip was very nice though and the double axel was so close to being two footed it wasn't even funny. LEADER BOARD: 1. Angela Nikodinov 2. Naomi Nari Nam 3. Andrea Gardiner 4. Deanna Stellato Michelle Kwan - A Day in the Life 2axel, 3lutz/2toe, 3toe(fall) Tech - 5.3-5.4 Pres - 5.7-5.9 NOTES: Simply shocking, she was wild in the air and her skate just dropped from under her. One of the few actual lutzes of the evening. Good speed tonight. LEADER BOARD: 1. Michelle Kwan 2. Angela Nikodinov 3. Naomi Nari Nam 4. Andrea Gardiner 5. Deanna Stellato Stacey Pensgen - unknown 3lutz/2toe, 3flip, 2axel Tech - 4.3-5.3 Pres - 4.7-5.5 NOTES: Flutzed, but very nice and easy. Very silly error in the footwork while she was skating forward and tripped herself. LEADER BOARD: 1. Michelle Kwan 2. Angela Nikodinov 3. Naomi Nari Nam 4. Andrea Gardiner 5. Stacey Pensgen 6. Deanna Stellato Sasha Cohen - Albanini; "Spring" from "Four Seasons" by Vivaldi 3lutz/2toe, 3flip, 2axel Tech - 5.4-5.7 Pres - 5.4-5.9 NOTES: Very promising skater, beautiful jumps, spins, positions. Very nice landing positions and great layback. Although, I think the judges overlooked a deduction that should have been there, she faltered her combination spin and didn't hook the camel correctly and wobbled around a bit. Flutzed on the combination as well. LEADER BOARD: 1. Sasha Cohen 2. Michelle Kwan 3. Angela Nikodinov 4. Naomi Nari Nam 5. Andrea Gardiner 6. Stacey Pensgen 7. Deanna Stellato Sarah Hughes - Serenade for Clara 2axel, 3lutz/2toe, 3flip Tech - 5.3-5.8 Pres - 5.4-5.9 NOTES: Very nice program, very gentle and easy. Her flutz just irritates me so much though. Nice spins and gorgeous spirals. STANDINGS AFTER THE SHORT PROGRAM: 1. Sasha Cohen 2. Sarah Hughes 3. Michelle Kwan 4. Angela Nikodinov 5. Naomi Nari Nam 6. Andrea Gardiner 7. Stacey Pensgen 8. Deanna Stellato 9. Brittney McConn 15. Amber Corwin

TaraLover
February 12th, 2000, 12:19 AM
Stacey Pensgen absolutely did not flutz. Check your videotape. She was the ONLY ONE who did not flutz.

Karin
February 12th, 2000, 05:17 AM
Did MK smile after the fall at all???

Terri
February 12th, 2000, 05:25 AM
She had a smile on her face throughout the rest of the program. She didn't look too happy back stage though. Poor baby :(

Karin
February 12th, 2000, 05:27 AM
Breaks my heart NOT because MK didn't win the sp but because MK wasn't really happy!!! :-(

Beth2000
February 12th, 2000, 06:57 AM
Karin I am with you. But remember in 97' when MK fell during the sp she came back and won the lp but b/c of where she placed in the standings she could only get second. The samething happened to TL at 98' Nationals when she fell during the sp, but b/c of where she was at in the standings she could only get second. Also when MK fell during the 97' Nationals in the sp she came back fighting for the lp and won the free skate.

Rene
February 12th, 2000, 07:36 AM
Tara only came in 2nd in the Long program at '98 Nationals. Michelle was in 1st in the sp at '97 Nationals and melted down during the LP, I don't even think she was second in the free skate. I think you meant Worlds '97 right?

TripleLutz
February 12th, 2000, 08:44 AM
Michelle was 1st after the SP at Nationals in Nashville, she was 3rd after the SP at the Champions Series Final in Hamilton, and 4th after SP at the 1997 Worlds in Lausanne. At the Champions Series Final, she was 2nd in the free skate to Lipinski and she was 3rd in the free skate at Nationals to Lipinski and Bobek. At the Worlds she won, but was too far back to move to first.

SJB
February 13th, 2000, 07:40 AM
It's been posted before, by those who ought to know, too, that it isn't really possible to detect lutzes/flutzes from broadcast TV or video. The camera angles are too deceptive. The judges presumably have their own eyes (they are there, and we are not) and close-up video replay (rather than whatever ABC chooses to broadcast) to assist them. Without the aids that the judges have, the only way to really determine a lutz/flutz, I am told, is to see the ice tracings. So, I now rely on the judges's opinion, or on those of others who had more of a chance to see what was happening than TV viewers do. I have only heard of two reported examinations of ice tracings at competitions, and both were of Michelle's lutz. In these two cases, both examiners reported that the tracings showed a lutz, no inside edge. So I know that at least those two times Michelle didn't flutz--I cannot say about every time she or anyone else tries the jump. I would like to hear reports of examinations of ice tracings of other ladies--some solid data would be informative.

tteller
February 13th, 2000, 09:36 AM
Can I add my 2 cents? When my wife and I ate with Sarah Hughes' grandmother this morning we spoke of flutzes. Grandma pointedly believes that although she is now trained to lutz properly, Sarah does flutz in many competitions because in the heat of the moment, you fall back on old habits (flutz, not lutz). Grandma said that Sarah initially was improperly taught to flutz. Grandma believes it will only come with confidence and more training for Sarah to lutz, not flutz.

Jenny
February 13th, 2000, 02:08 PM
Ok, I just deleted a lot of unnecessary nasty posts.... For the record, most of the reports I've read about the SP have stated that Stacey Pengsen did have a true lutz -- several people called it the best lutz of everyone. However, TaraLover, it was *not* the only one. It was reported that Michelle had a true lutz as well. From what I've read, they were the only two skaters in the top 8 (after the SP) to do a real lutz.